MUSICandCHARACTER

When I go into a real music store (as opposed to a punk teen music store), the largest section is ALWAYS classical music. Why is that? Because we, as a culture, dislike classical music? I don't think so.

Because orchestras don't invite gangsta rappers to perform with them, they are going downhill? Hardly. MTV did a bang up job on the Superbowl show.

No, a reading of what goes on in the political scene in orchestras is disturbing. Auditions without winners? Programming that is not for the audience, but to fill some director's ego? What you BUY at the music store is not what is programmed during a concert. Egos and politics may ruin the American orchestra scene. LA, Chicago, NY will always have great symphonies -- we hope. But will Indy, Denver, and Miami?

Drum and Bugle Corps and marching bands all over the nation are playing renditions of classical pieces. Music students will know classical music quite well.

Good music transcends. Bad politics and over-inflated egos kill the sound. Why do orchestras resort to plastic shields? Why are players wearing ear plugs? Egos. Even in my symphonic band, we have one bass trombone player who doesn't even have the foggiest idea of what mezzo piano is, much less pianissimo. Doesn't care either.

All you have to do is read Doug Yeo's or Jay Friedman's wedsites to hear about how loud the egomaniac trombones can be. The brass can wipe out the strings and woodwinds -- and they often do. Sounds like crap. They sound good in recordings because they can be mixed professionally. First we had medium bore horns, then medium-large, and now large and in the case of trombones, obscenely large bores.

A good player can make any bore sound good. But sometimes, they buy big horns to "fill them up." They're heard alright. Into the poor house of crappy sound. The sad thing is that these same horns could blend oh so beautifully -- if the player wanted them too.

Projection is always mentioned before "blending." If they programmed something everyone knew, they would have to play it well because there would be well-known recordings to be compared to. It would expose how bad some symphonies sound. Have a small symphony play Bolero, The Overture of 1812, The William Tell Overture, and First Movement of Beethoven's 5th on the same program. Never happen -- too many people know what they should sound like.

Who wants to pay $50 to $200 a seat to hear crap? If people had to really compete for a job and directors answered to a board of directors who answered to the number of tickets sold (rather than benefactors) the music would get better.

The best players may be there -- but in too many cases they don't play their best. Politics trumps all.

Now I need to go practice playing very loud so I can play in a Ska band and project my nasty sound

M&C

Lawler Bb

Wow, I don't even know where to start with that last post. I sure don't see it that way. Yes, trombones have definitely increased in size, but that certainly does not mean they "sound like crap". I'll have to let this one brew for awhile...........

MUSICandCHARACTER

How about Doug Yeo:
http://www.yeodoug.com/articles/text/teamplayer.html

As trombones have gotten more and specialized, and in many cases, more efficient in the delivery of sound, there has been a trend toward larger and larger equipment which touches on the very human issues of ego, pride, submission to authority, working together and the concept of being a "team player." There is a subtext behind the "bigger is better" trend which bears careful scrutiny.

.... Over the past twenty years, American orchestral playing has been undergoing a significant change, as brass players have (with some notable exceptions) asserted themselves beyond their traditional role in the orchestra.

Most students go through their "loud" phase, of getting together with other players and just knocking the living daylights out of orchestral excerpts. This can be great fun to do, good for the face and boosting to the ego. But excerpt sessions don't always relate to the real world, and as many brass players have developed a more "muscular" concept of playing, the American orchestra has, in my mind, begun to suffer.

Or Jay Friedman
http://www.jayfriedman.net/articles/...e_of_Style.php

Piano is the most abused dynamic in music today. There seems to be a world-wide transformation of the dynamic piano into something approaching mf or even f. The general attitude seems to be, "Well, it isn't really that soft or the composer would have written pp." Often when a performer tries to play with maximum expression, this unfortunately becomes translated into louder playing, perhaps because the performer lacks the imagination to increase expression without raising the dynamic.

or ( http://www.jayfriedman.net/articles/..._Beethoven.php )

Modern orchestral style holds that expression comes first and dynamics come into play only after the big sound has been achieved. Dynamics are the single most neglected aspect of orchestral performance today. (On the rare occasions that conductors venture into correcting intonation, it's with a vengeance.)

What actually happens is that nothing ever gets too hushed or too intense. Pianissimos don't have the misterioso quality that composers intended because conductors pursue only expression, which means to play louder.

M&C

BTW, I am not slamming trombone players. It is my primary instrument (when I play trumpet, it is 3rd or 4th seat always, I am more of a "come back" trumpet player).

MUSICandCHARACTER

Or this one:
Nasville City Paper

People who love classical music are a gloomy bunch. It might be high ticket prices we're forced to pay for recitals and concerts. Perhaps it's the sense of alienation we feel not knowing - or caring - who Kid Rock is....

"Classical music is alive," says Heymann. "It's classical music organizations that are ailing." And their demise is the result of their almost willful refusal to cultivate new audiences.

"Millions of children are taking piano or other music lessons," he says. "But this and other audiences have been ignored."

He notes that orchestra concerts held in municipal parks routinely draw tens of thousands of listeners, while the same orchestra might have trouble filling a medium-sized concert hall.

Tootsall

And to add to what Jim says, my own observations are that symphonies (most, not all) are getting themselves into financial trouble because they have refused to adjust their thinking about what the AUDIENCE wants to hear, not what the ORCHESTRA wants to play. I live far from Boston, but I love to watch/listen to the Boston Pops on PBS; I notice that their hall is FULL and their music is a very good blend of Classical, Showtunes, what I call "Popular Arrangements", and even a bit of comedy. In short, they are programming for the audience.

I have also listened to our local symphony. They have been very close to going under more than once. Most of their musicians are UNPAID, yet they charge $25 a ticket for which the audience gets to sit in a "less than ideally designed" hall, listening to "sometimes good, most often poorly played" music that the "serious classical musicians" want to play. In short, the symphony as represented by it's individual members has darn near forgotten that they are NOT "the repository nor archive" of classical music... THEY ARE ENTERTAINERS in a geographic locale that is mostly rooted in agriculture and related industries and where they have to compete with rodeos, country n western, heavy metal, and "Survivor Series"! Fortunately (for them) they have started to pick up on the idea of programming for their audience's tastes... they do an annual "Music on the Mountain" which is very well received and they perform an annual fundraising concert which features popular music (based in the classics) blended into a stage play. Highly entertaining, fun to go to, and well worth the price.

I have even heard some of the performers state (with respect to playing in some of these popular shows). "We don't like to play THAT, it's not SERIOUS MUSIC". To that I reply "Fine, go play in the privacy of your own practice room but don't expect me to keep on shelling out $25 to listen to Wagner being poorly played". It's an attitude adjustment thing... our whole culture has shifted from the days of yore when it was "socially enlightened" to attend classical music events to today when it has become almost a "social rarity" to even admit that you attend symphonic concerts. We (the audience) have alternatives and we will select those alternatives that (to us) give us the greatest degree of enjoyment for our entertainment dollar.

WAKeele

Well I think Ridenour is the man for the job! Bottom line! And lets not start bashing trombones. I love what the brass section of an orchestra can do. The force that can be mustered is unreal. Absolutely wonderful! And Chicago does it as good as anybody!