masterfulmusic29

Wait a minute I thought that Brandenburg No. 2 was in F and was played in G on a Bb Picc. Have I been killing myself even more.
James

Manny Laureano

Transposition gone wild!

ML

John P

I'm by no means nearly as informed as you guys, but I always figured that the portrait of Reiche was more of a classic cocky trumpet player thing. As if he was saying "Yeah, that's right, I can play THIS piece on THIS horn! Just try and stop me!" I'm probably totally wrong.

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JP

GordonH

I view this portrait in the same way as CD covers or posed photos of trumpet players.
They often pose with their most outlandish looking instrument even if its not used on that CD.

By the way this is the sort of small valved horn I was refering to:
http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart...rge/isi296.jpg

__________________
"O trumpeter, methinks I am myself the instrument thou playest,
Thou melt'st my heart, my brain--thou movest, drawest, changest
them at will;" (Walt Whitman)

trumpetnick

Ed and guys,

Is mellophone and modern corno do caccia (valved) the same thing?

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Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C
Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C
1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet
Spada Custom Piccolo

If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

rowuk

Wow has this post gone fuzzy!
There is enough historical and mathematical evidence that Bach wrote this piece for the trumpet in high F (Telemann also has some cantatas for this trumpet). The fact that you can also play it on the contra bassoon does not detract from its original glory! The problem with playing one part down an octave is that the melodic lines do not line up any more. Whether or not somebody needs justification for not having payed his dues to play it correctly is another matter.................

Tempo is always a point of discussion. Gabriel Cassone, Claude Rippas and others proved that you can play this thing on the natural trumpet at whirlwind tempo so playability is not an argument any more.

The slower tempos taken in the recordings during the 50's and 60's should be kept in context. When you want to expose structures to your audience, it is much easier at slower tempos. The baroque performing practices have changed dramatically in the last 30 years - not all of the change has been musically driven!

My personal belief is that the recording industry has made faster tempos wanted. Recordings can be made without regard to the normal concert hall acoustics - the transparency of the rendition is perfect because of microphone techniques. The recordings set the standard and in pursuit of ever new recordings, the envelope is pushed even farther, regardless of musical taste. There are even conductors that take pride in the ridiculous! The ballast of these recordings unfortunately makes a slower tempo a point of criticism today.

If we check out the chamber concert rooms in these old castles and villas in Germany, we generally find very "live" acoustics. As Bach had nothing to prove, he most likely wanted tempos that worked in those respective environments. I am sure he would have accepted other tempos if the room was suitable!

We should not forget that the musical experience of our audience is more important than breaking speed records. The pressure to deliver a live concert in CD perfection and speed does not always guarantee a musical end result! At the end of a concert the ultimate compliment is not how well we played, but rather how enjoyable the entire experience was. It is our job to guarantee that!

Nick,
the corno da caccia was designed to let trumpet players steal baroque gigs from horn players (Ludwig Guttler did a great job in showing the world that he had no idea what horn playing is about - he had a certain amount of political influence in East Germany and that got him the gigs anyway!). It is like a baby flugelhorn.
The mellophone was designed to let horn players play in the same direction that their eyes are pointed in. It is a french horn substitute used mostly for marching band.

John P: the real reason that Reiche has the coiled horn is because the guilds in Germany back then did not allow the trumpet to be painted. It is similar today to a union member playing a blacklisted gig! I am sure that you are right about his attitude. Just imagine if YOU were J.S. Bach's chosen first trumpet player!

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

GordonH

Here is the trumpet part in case anyone is interested:

http://la.trompette.free.fr/parts/brandebourgeois.pdf

This reminds me that I have been planning for a while to put some of my own baroque transcriptions on the web for free download. Its one of these things that I need to do from the office but all the music is in the house.

__________________
"O trumpeter, methinks I am myself the instrument thou playest,
Thou melt'st my heart, my brain--thou movest, drawest, changest
them at will;" (Walt Whitman)