stchasking

This post isn't worth much but I'll throw in my 2 pence.

I phone interviewed for a job with Airbus west of London. The interview was an hour and a half. During that interview they wanted me to say I was and expert in some branch of the engineering I do. If I were an expert they could get me a visa. I mentioned to them I had relatives buried in St. Mary's cemetery in Frampton and they just about had festival in my honor.

It turned out they needed certain criteria to get me a visa.
1. One generation off the boat or living relatives in England one generation away or less.
2. An expert in some field that they couldn't get in England or the EU.

Hiring preference was England first, British Common Wealth second and EU third. Then came foreigners with living relatives in England.

Based on this experience I wrote to my Congressman and Senators and told them to stop issuing H1 visas. We can train our own engineers until the rest of the world loosens up.

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"I was performing professionally at age 17 and have never had a real job." Allen Vizzutti

http://cdbaby.com/cd/mcking

brianj

Hi

So that's the policy of Airbus. If it was uniform across all organisations in the UK there would be no foreign musicians in the orchestras. There are clearly enough musicians here who are well capable of doing the job. But there are foreign players playing in the UK so maybe some orchestras are after the best folk for the job.

If they won an audition of course it could certainly be argued they're experts in their field, however it certainly couldn't be argued that there wasn't a UK citizen who wasn't capable of doing the job.

btw. We holiday on the West Coast of the US every year. Believe me, considering the form filling, eye recognition, finger print, fun talk with immigration officials etc you have to go through to spend 2 or 3 weeks there I doubt that they hand out freely visas that allow you work.

all the best

Brian Jones

rowuk

Brian,
it isn't the gun, it is always the person pulling the trigger.
The tradition of playing in the UK is different than in America or the rest of Europe. Whether or not the horn is is a Smith/Wesson or Smith/Watkins doesn't really determine the STYLE.
An American with his Bach C is going to interface differently with an orchestra than a German with their rotary Bb. The result will surely be musical, but "better"? A specific player and their heritage always puts their stamp on the music regardless of the horn. When I play "german music" I use a Bb rotary, when playing shows, a piston Bb, for other things a picc, G trumpet, cornet or nat. They all still have my American "style".
The original point of the thread was whether the US orchestras OWED foreigners a chance. I say no. They have the option and it may have advantages or disadvantages.
I think each orchestra should seek and develop their own sonic footprint and independently decide how traditional that should be. I do not wish to have universal interchangeability between orchestras. The idea of strengths and weaknesses appeals to me. If an orchestra is especially good with Mahler, that is a reason to check it out. Other ensembles may do better with Vaughan-Williams or Holst, yet others with Stravinsky and Bernstein.
Remember, EVERY developed country is producing more musicians than they can feed. The burden is on the person that decided to study a profession with a low chance of getting hired. That is their own personal risk, not the responsibility of any orchestra.
I studied trumpet too (MA), but got a job in sales to support myself. Family pressures changed my priorities. I still get to play the pro gigs, just not full time (my wife disagrees with my assessment of "part-time"!).

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Vulgano Brother

When teaching in Ditzingen Germany, I was invited to a Hungarian sister-city's Schnaps festival. In a giant tent (just like a Bierzelt but with Schnaps) I heard two different groups. One was a Top-40 cover band as good as anything I've heard in the states in a tent, and a Hungarian folk group that produced the finest Hungarian folk music I've ever heard (albeit the only Hungarian folk music I've heard in a Schnapszelt)!

We are dealing with cultural on multiple levels in this thread--first of all, the musical culture of the orchestra (which includes their own hiring practices) and the political/economic culture (laws) of the country hiring.

They do differ from country to country and orchestra to orchestra, but somehow, the finest players always seem to find work. Weird, huh?

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www.letsbuildhope.org

gglassmeyer

I live in Cincinnati, and the arts community in Cincinnati is very cultrually diverse. I don't think anyone can really answer your question other than those directly involved in the selection of candidates.

As far as comments about not missing anything in Cincinnati except the flying pigs.... (btw I know it was intended as a joke).

Cincinnati, while not a huge metropolis, still is home to several large companies who generously sponsor the arts. Musicians who like to be paid might not mind the small town feel of Cincinnati and the cost of housing here is way lower than the East or West coasts.

On the flip side... downtown Cincinnati does have a reputation for shutting down after 5:00pm where everyone goes home to the suburbs. Not quite the same as New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami etc. where the city never sleeps. Cincinnati dozes off nicely, but you can still find decent music particularly on the weekends.

Sorry about your luck. If I were you, I'd ask the folks at the CSO why they felt you were unqualified.

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Greg Glassmeyer

gglassmeyer

I also forgot to apologize for the brassmojo "whining" remarks. Those are his own views and don't reflect the views of the whole of the US population.

I have met many folks from all over the world and have usually learned something new from each person.

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Greg Glassmeyer

mahaberio

The auditions were held earlier this week. The winner was Mark Inouye, runner-up was Mark Ridenour, and also in the running was Ryan Anthony. I think it's safe to say that this incident was an issue of the CSO feeling that they had a pool of highly qualified applicants to pick from and having no issue with not hearing those they felt were probably less qualified.