bulldog

also, what does blag mean?

Manny Laureano

Doesn't it mean to get places by reputation and resumé?

ML

tpter1

When individuals take their chair for granted, that's wwhen problems arise. 3rd or 4th might not be hard in terms of technical demands; but in terms of doing the job right, musically, and reliably, it is.

Maybe that's one of the separations between the better orchestras and those that are mediocre. That and the pay. If they were able to offer more (I know little to nothing about the business end of running an orchestra), would the musicians then be taking their part for granted and try to hide and coast? Maybe in some cases, but they would also be weeded out rather quickly, I would think. When positions opened, they would be recruiting higher caliber musicians who would not be taking their seat for granted or viewing it of lesser importance. Don't understand how someone could view that way; each player is essentially a soloist. 3rd is often associate principal, is it not? How about when sections divide into trumpet/cornet (such as Berlioz Roman Carnival?) 3rd and 4th are now their own section; the 3rd player is now trumpet 1. Or in the Saint-Saens Organ Symphony, there is alot of doubling between 1st and 2nd; third is all by his/her lonesome, left to balance against 2 players at times. 3rd is not for the weak at heart any less than 1st or second. Neither is 4th.

For someone to assume 3rd or 4th is easy, bottom line, offends me also. There is no place for those who wish to "hide" or "coast" in any performing organization. Take your job seriously, or get out and let someone who will do it.

Sorry for the rant. (Well, maybe only a little).

__________________
-Glenn
"Roses have thorns; shining waters mud. Clouds and eclipses stain the moon and the sun; and history reeks of the wrongs we have done. After today, after today, consider me gone."- Sting

Umyoguy

3rd and 4th auditions can be the hardest to win sometimes, because they require auditioning on more obscure parts. You'll still probably have to play Pictures, Mahler 5, etc, but you're more likely to see lots of second parts for Beethoven symphonies, tough 3rd parts you've never heard of, etc.

Not to mention, how many hours a week does the typical player practice double tonguing in the low register to clean up articulation? :)

I respect anyone who wins an audition, at any level. Period. It's a hard, hard task.

Jon

bj

Hi

I spoke with Martin Winter about auditions once and he said he never really knew what for. He once auditioned for the 4th trumpet spot at the Royal Opera house and didn't get anywhere near, then later that week won the principal trumpet spot with the BBC Philharmonic.
He reckoned he played as well on both occasions.

all the best

Brian Jones

trombapaul

You might be able to win a spot in an orchestra without a music degree (or
any degree for that matter) but it might be a challenge getting the proverbial
foot-in-the-door to even take the audition if your resume' doesn't show some
evidence of higher education. Why else would audition applications ask for
educational histories as well as professional histories? About the only way
to get over that hurdle, it would seem, is if your application has a pretty hefty
recommendation attached to it from somebody well known in the business.

Also, keep in mind that any player can win any audition for any position with
any orchestra on any given day. The hard part is keeping the job and that
goes for 3rd and 4th spots too.

Paul

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Alex Yates

My opinion on the "degree" or "no degree" argument falls on the side of having that degree. Along with everything TrombaPaul said, I want to add that attending conservatory was mostly for ME....MY personal benefit. Firstly, and most importantly, you learn HOW to learn which carries you through life and makes just about anything possible. Remember, you will be teaching yourself and possibly others long after you walk out of the doors with that piece of paper in your hand. In my case, conservatory was where I had to dig very deep within myself at times to survive. That is the other benefit. You can have all of the drive in the world, but a serious teacher and / or conservatory situation will force you to dig deeper than you ever imagined (yes, to the point where it is uncomfortable at times) and that is how some find their true potential. I graduated with a MM with honors nine years ago and 'til this day, lightbulbs still go off all of the time. In otherwords, it is still serving me well and probably will my entire life.

Also related to Trombapaul's post......KEEPING an orchestra job is an entirely different ball of wax than getting one. Why do you think so many orchestras are having a difficult time keeping folks? There are those who can audition perfectly, but without the training, education, etc. cannot maintain a high level of playing for very long. In all honesty, in response to the original question of this thread, I don't think most could "blag" their way into a job. Not in today's climate.