I hope John Williams has good lawyers! - Page 2

HoosierDaddy · 06-18-2006, 12:28 AM

I agree with Robert on this one. A number of years ago Queen sued Vanilla Ice claiming that he stole the opening of Under Pressure in his hit Ice Ice Baby. It's similar but Queen bit the dust on that one.

HD

robertwhite · 06-18-2006, 12:49 AM

Good point, HD. Because "Ice Ice Baby" didn't actually use a sample of the Queen song, but rather a performed approximation of it, they didnt' win their lawsuit. At least that's what I heard. Other rap groups were successfully sued because they used uncredited actual samples. It's too bad, because Ice, Ice baby really sucked.

trpt2345 · 06-18-2006, 02:13 AM

Anyone remember the Mingus composition known as Gunslinging Bird? The full title was "If Bird Were a Gunslinger There'd Be a Whole Lot of Dead Copycats."

Michael McLaughlin

"Those who'll play with cats must expect to be scratched."
Miguel de Cervantes

Dave Payn · 06-18-2006, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertwhite

Let's not get too worried about this. For one thing, the only reason this is even "sue-able" is because Holsts' works are still protected.

I have a feeling they are going into the public domain in the coming years, so this may be a last-ditch attempt by the publisher to wring some cash out of hapless Hans Zimmer (who totally did rip-off "Mars" for that stupid, stupid movie!).

Bach and Mozart's works are all squarely in the public domain at this point. No lawsuits going on there.

Well, in Europe at least, Holst's works went into the public domain on January 1, 2005.....

GordonH · 06-20-2006, 10:57 AM

Orion the Hunter by Granville Bantock was a contemporary rip off of Mars....

trumpet blower88 · 06-20-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Payn

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertwhite

Let's not get too worried about this. For one thing, the only reason this is even "sue-able" is because Holsts' works are still protected.

I have a feeling they are going into the public domain in the coming years, so this may be a last-ditch attempt by the publisher to wring some cash out of hapless Hans Zimmer (who totally did rip-off "Mars" for that stupid, stupid movie!).

Bach and Mozart's works are all squarely in the public domain at this point. No lawsuits going on there.

Well, in Europe at least, Holst's works went into the public domain on January 1, 2005.....

I believe over here in the US, the public domain rule is 90 years after the composers death. So they've got untill 2024 to sue, they've still got some time.

Annie · 06-20-2006, 03:07 PM

I haven't done a listening comparison, but are they really that identical, that he can be sued for it?

Also, as a side note, pull out your concone book, I can't remember which number it is, but one of them is part of the main theme for Indiana Jones...lol...It's towards the end, that's all I can remember.

Isn't quoting part of a piece of earlier music kind of what has always happened with almost every composer alive today? I can understand if you quote the entire piece, and then claim it as yours...that's really wrong. But just a line or two, in tribute? Yeah, I haven't finished my copywrite book yet.

trumpet blower88 · 06-20-2006, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annie

I haven't done a listening comparison, but are they really that identical, that he can be sued for it?

Also, as a side note, pull out your concone book, I can't remember which number it is, but one of them is part of the main theme for Indiana Jones...lol...It's towards the end, that's all I can remember.

Isn't quoting part of a piece of earlier music kind of what has always happened with almost every composer alive today? I can understand if you quote the entire piece, and then claim it as yours...that's really wrong. But just a line or two, in tribute? Yeah, I haven't finished my copywrite book yet.

A composer can directly copy up to 4 measures to use as a "quote", as for the rest, as you said to tribute a couple lines or so, I think there are some kind of rules where some fraction of it has to be differant.

If you listen to Eric Whitacre's Godzillia Eats Las Vegas, that is a great example of getting around the copyrights, he'll even admit that the entire piece is 100% riped off from other composers. Most of it is 4 bars from other pieces (like you would hear in Vegas) but then suddenly stops (as if destroyed by Godzillia) and goes into a "tribute" if you will, of all the old Godzillia movie soundtracks.

GordonH · 06-20-2006, 03:15 PM

Pet shop Boys:
"you've got the brains i've got the brawn - lets make lots of money"

Is a deliberate lift from the Bee Gees:

"lonely days, lonely nights - where would I be without my woman".

I think it is permitted up to a certain amount before there is any liability.

trpt2345 · 06-20-2006, 09:12 PM

[quote="trumpet blower88"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annie

A composer can directly copy up to 4 measures to use as a "quote", as for the rest, as you said to tribute a couple lines or so, I think there are some kind of rules where some fraction of it has to be differant.

If you listen to Eric Whitacre's Godzillia Eats Las Vegas, that is a great example of getting around the copyrights, he'll even admit that the entire piece is 100% riped off from other composers. Most of it is 4 bars from other pieces (like you would hear in Vegas) but then suddenly stops (as if destroyed by Godzillia) and goes into a "tribute" if you will, of all the old Godzillia movie soundtracks.

That is a widely reported but unfortunately untrue fact, i.e., you can copy up to four bars without penalty. If it is provable that any part of any tune is copied, there is liability exposure.

Michael McLaughlin

"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
Mark Twain

06-18-2006, 02:13 AM	#13 (permalink)
trpt2345 Mezzo Forte User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 747	Anyone remember the Mingus composition known as Gunslinging Bird? The full title was "If Bird Were a Gunslinger There'd Be a Whole Lot of Dead Copycats." Michael McLaughlin "Those who'll play with cats must expect to be scratched." Miguel de Cervantes __________________ Chicago MM

06-20-2006, 03:07 PM	#17 (permalink)
Annie Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 425	I haven't done a listening comparison, but are they really that identical, that he can be sued for it? Also, as a side note, pull out your concone book, I can't remember which number it is, but one of them is part of the main theme for Indiana Jones...lol...It's towards the end, that's all I can remember. Isn't quoting part of a piece of earlier music kind of what has always happened with almost every composer alive today? I can understand if you quote the entire piece, and then claim it as yours...that's really wrong. But just a line or two, in tribute? Yeah, I haven't finished my copywrite book yet. __________________ ~Annie I may not be great yet, but I'm working hard on it and one day I'm gonna be there.

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06-18-2006, 12:28 AM	#11 (permalink)
HoosierDaddy Pianissimo User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 67	I agree with Robert on this one. A number of years ago Queen sued Vanilla Ice claiming that he stole the opening of Under Pressure in his hit Ice Ice Baby. It's similar but Queen bit the dust on that one. HD

06-18-2006, 12:49 AM	#12 (permalink)
robertwhite Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 481	Good point, HD. Because "Ice Ice Baby" didn't actually use a sample of the Queen song, but rather a performed approximation of it, they didnt' win their lawsuit. At least that's what I heard. Other rap groups were successfully sued because they used uncredited actual samples. It's too bad, because Ice, Ice baby really sucked.

06-20-2006, 10:57 AM	#15 (permalink)
GordonH Mezzo Piano User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 610	Orion the Hunter by Granville Bantock was a contemporary rip off of Mars....

06-20-2006, 03:15 PM	#19 (permalink)
GordonH Mezzo Piano User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 610	Pet shop Boys: "you've got the brains i've got the brawn - lets make lots of money" Is a deliberate lift from the Bee Gees: "lonely days, lonely nights - where would I be without my woman". I think it is permitted up to a certain amount before there is any liability.

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