Jimi Michiel

Here are a couple of versions that I find more interesting that Phil Smiths:

YouTube - Rafael Mendez - Haydn Trumpet Concerto

--Mendez's sound is incredibly bright, but you know it's him. How could it be anyone else? Even though he might not have a complete control of the "galant" style, his innate phrasing and musicality shine through. He makes it his own, even if he goes beyond what most would consider "classical style and sensibility"

YouTube - Giuliano Sommerhalder - Haydn Trumpet Concerto - 1st Mov.

--The kid is 13 (at the time) and approaches the piece with an incredible amount of enthusiasm. His dynamic range and contrast is noticeable for the listener without being over the top. I don't agree with some of his slurring in the recap, but it's for the most part convincing.

YouTube - Tine Thing Helseth: Haydn Trumpet Concerto, 3rd mvt

--Not only is she prettier than PS (cheap shot, sorry, she's prettier than me too...), check out the changes in articulation between the different statements of the main tune. By varying the articulations, and to a lesser extent the color and dynamics, she introduces subtle changes each time the theme is presented!

These are just a few things that popped up at the top of my Youtube search. I don't agree with every performance of the Haydn I hear, but I generally tend to prefer the performances/interpretations that offer something more than just good trumpet playing.

-Jimi

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Jhorn229h

I find it a VERY exciting performance of the piece. Note-perfect - no, but it is indeed a live performance. You previous post didn't just slam this particular performance however, but him as a musician.....

J

Tiscione

Hmmm. Just did this and I still think it sounds beautiful. Something must be wrong with your speakers, Jimi.

Jimi Michiel

Mike,

My point was not that it doesn't sound beautiful--Phil Smith has, without a doubt, one of the most beautiful sounds any of us has ever heard. My point is that, in a piece like the Haydn, I like to hear more than just the notes played with a beautiful sound. I like to hear the soloist relate to me that he or she has a sense of the underlying harmony, as well a style that combines the individuals creativity with the norms dictated by the composer, historical period, and musical setting.

Mike, could you honestly tell me that if someone sent in the audio from that recording to the ASO for an audition, that you would be able to pick it out as Phil Smith? If so, I'd be interested to know what stands out to you about this recording. Like I said before (although perhaps too bluntly), when I hear a recording of Maurice Andre, Bud, Vacchiano, or Voisin, to name a few, I think it's safe to say that most informed trumpeters could immediately name the musician. I'm sorry, but I just don't hear that in Phil Smith's playing.

-Jimi

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JustinSmith

I saw Phil Smith play the Haydn with the NYPO in 1989, when I was in high school and was blown away buy the peformance. I found it totally inspiring and was one of the many great performances I attended that made me want to be a professional musician, trumpet player.

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Justin J. Smith

When people believe in boundaries, they become part of them.......Don Cherry

mahaberio

I saw this video yesterday before I saw this thread and I actually have to agree with Jimi. I think it's wonderful trumpet playing but all-around a pretty blasé performance. I won't generalize my opinion of Phil Smith as I do like the style in a lot of his performances, especially in orchestral music. This performance simply didn't do it for me.

However, my opinion of the performance wasn't supposed to be the topic of my post. What everyone seems to fail to keep in mind is that we're discussing an incredibly subjective topic. The performance lacks style to my ears and to Jimi's, and that's completely legitimate; just as it is legitimate for those of you who loved the performance. All this means is that I probably won't listen to it again and I hope that those of you who do enjoy it continue to do so and take what you can from it.

-Matthew

Tiscione

Here is how I look at the Haydn Trumpet Concerto - it was written by Haydn in the middle of the "classical" period. Part of what is so appealing about Haydn's music is the simplicity of his musical line, the inherent beauty of each phrase, and the innate sense of honesty within the music. My favorite renditions of this piece exhibit that in the trumpet playing. I think Phil does that and that's why I enjoy this performance. I'm not a concertizing soloist - I play section trumpet, so maybe that influences what I listen for in this piece. That's just me. We are certainly all entitled to our own opinions.

As to your comment about identifying trumpeters based on recordings - is it the musicality of the player that helps you identify them or is it their sound? If Phil has "one of the most beautiful sounds any of us has ever heard," how can you say that you can't identify him?

Decentplayer

He plays very well, but, he does look like a robot LOL. But, he got that position for some reason right??

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mazzrick

I'm gonna voice here too and I'm with Jimi and Matt on this particular performance. However, this was in 1989, a year after Phil was appointed principal and maybe didn't have tenure yet... I don't know. So who knows the circumstances. Actually, on a second listen I liked it better than the first time through. I just moved to Germany this year where the Haydn trumpet concerto is the only thing played in the first round of an orchestral audition. Thus it is looked at very closely and meticulously and is also played on rotary Bb trumpet, which we don't have to get into now.

Part of the reason that this is the competition piece is that there is so little to play. You must take advantage of every musical or technical possibility in the piece. Thus, you have to show contrasting styles, dynamics, and make enough of your musicality as clear as possible no matter what you chose to do. With this telecast I think the musicality, which there is undoubtedly some, is quite understated and thus sounds to me and the other guys quite bland.

I think we can draw a huge link here to Ed's "Orchestral Sound" thread in that there is no real discerning attribute to this performance. I would argue that this was played almost as an audition where the player was trying not to offend any of the committee by making a strong statement of interpretation.

For anyone who's interested, Nikolas Eklund has an incredible recording of the Haydn and I believe it's on keyed trumpet. Also, if you can dig up Hans Gansch's anywhere, that will provide the other end of the spectrum.

Two funny things:

I saw a masterclass that Simon Rattle gave on Haydn Symphony 104, written a year before the trumpet concerto, and he said the two most important things are the connection [call and response] of the melodic lines and the energy. "You must all play with each other." This got a laugh and the actual meaning can be applied the trumpet concerto. The other was he said, "Do you realize how much energy this must have? Do you know how many mistresses Haydn had in London at this point."

Also note that someone commented on Phil's video on youtube by saying "he's so cute and he got the high note." Oh dear,

Matt

Jimi Michiel

I agree with a lot of this. Smith does a great job of playing what Haydn gives him. But there really isn't a lot on the page. I think that where we part ways, maybe on our view of this piece in addition to this performance, is that Haydn really doesn't give the modern performer much to work with. You get the notes. I haven't seen any kind of un-edited urtext, but I doubt that he gives much in the way of slurring and dynamics. I think it's safe to assume that Haydn left it up to Weidinger to interpret his work (maybe that's not a safe assumption?).

A few weeks ago a friend of mine who works as a music librarian brought to my attention the fact that Haydn's scores after he moved from Esterhazy to London contained significantly more markings (articulation, dynamics, etc), even within the same piece. (eg. an English score of Symphony 104 might contain twice as many dynamic markings as one published in Vienna) There are a couple of ways to interpret this, but the one that seems most obvious to me is that there was a style of playing in Esterhazy/Vienna that he thought did not exist in London and therefore had to "notate style" for English orchestras. Haydn wrote the trumpet concerto for a Viennese trumpeter, one who would have been familiar with the norms of the Esterhazy court. Haydn most likely would not have needed to give him every nuance, instead leaving it up to Weidinger to "interpret" the piece. What I hear in Phil Smith's recording is what Haydn wrote on the page, played with a beautiful sound, but nothing more.

It's a beautiful sound, but there's just not a lot of character. Nothing sticks out, good or bad. Quality of sound is not the only way to identify, or judge a musician. There are recordings out there that I don't like, but I prefer them to a recording like Smith's because at least there's something to talk about. You didn't answer my question, though--could you identify this recording on a drop the needle test, and if so, what would the identifying characteristics be? (I realize that I'm assuming that we all consider an identifiable recording a good one. Maybe that's not the case with everyone. EC has a pretty good discussion going on over in his place that addresses this topic)

Thanks for keeping this civil, everyone.

-Jimi

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