mazzrick

No one said that, but I meant more about the "let's hear your rendition" thing and "who are you to say...."

Excerpts from Phil Smith's excerpt CD were sent as an application for Tanglewood a few years back and it was rejected. Maybe they knew someone was using that CD or maybe they just don't like getting tapes???

Jimi Michiel

Maybe they didn't like the talking before each of the excerpts

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Jimi Michiel

Fair enough. I'd have trouble picking him out, but you hear something I don't.

-Jimi

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Jimi Michiel

I would imagine that it would be pretty easy to identify those excerpts as coming from the CD (even if they took the talking out). The engineering/production on that CD in itself would make it stand out against other tapes (and against whatever solo the applicant also sent in).

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HoosierDaddy

It's hard to believe this thread is anything but a positive take on one of the world's greatest trumpet players.

Jimi Michiel

There are a couple of people on this thread with differning points of view having an intelligent discussion about a performance of the Haydn. I find no irony in the fact that those involved in a civil discussion are also the ones who more or less make their real identities known. I offered an unpopular opinion, but I didn't take a cheap shot while hiding in anonymity.

Anyone as well known and in such a prominent position is going to have supporters and detractors. If he were principal of the Syracuse Symphony, we wouldn't be having this discussion (apologies George Coble, my first teacher and a great musician, not to mention a former member of the NYP). Uniform opinions are not a good thing--it leads to conformity. The world would be a very boring place if everyone idolized and wanted to sound like one person.

Opposing opinions, if offered in a correct environment, are a good thing. It's why we try to play for as many people as possible before taking an audition. We don't get anywhere by whitewashing. And don't worry, I didn't come to your house and kick your dog, I only said that I wasn't a fan of Phil Smith's musical sensibilities.

Part of my point is that I don't care for PS's Haydn. My other point is that no one is beyond criticism, and criticism is good when done in a constructive manner. I may have been blunt in my first post on this thread, but I think I've made some decent points that even someone who doesn't agree with me could at least give reasonable consideration to.

-Jimi

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rowuk

I have kept an eye on this thread and a couple of things are apparent:
Not everyone likes scotch, bourbon or cognac (or Coca-Cola for that matter).

I have taken similar hits for criticizing FAMOUS players and to be honest, I think it is disgusting to not respect a documented opinion even if it does not match ours.

I envision the Haydn MUCH differently than Phils version too. That does not make his version "BAD", just not worth my money or time. The same would apply to Charlie Schlüters Hindemith, Maurice Andrés Hora Legato or Toccata and Fugue in d Minor by the Canadian Brass in my opinion.

I think there is a popular assumption that every professional player has a state of the art reading on every solo that they play. It just ain't true. Each one of us has a genre that matches our interests and talents. Reinhold Friedrichs solo playing developed a lot of color AFTER he left the Radio Symphony in Frankfurt. He is the same great player but the performances ARE more passionate - the readings don't sound as "safe" and I enjoy that. I am sure that Ed Carroll can provide some first hand insite into this move too - without taking a personal stand on Phils interpretation.

The reason that there is such variety in brass music is because there are various audiences and preferences. To criticize people that think differently is not professional or even called for. Analyse the criticism, maybe you can learn something. It is not there to change YOUR mind, just document ours.

Posting in an insulting way does not serve our community.

We would have a real problem if it was Phil claiming to be THE Haydn authority. To my knowledge, there is nothing documented in this direction. Give him, the orchestral trumpet player and us a break. Just because he has one of the best jobs in the world job does not make him God. It documents his professional playing and personality. If his orchestral playing is too neutral for some of us, I would blame the conductor. THEY are responsible for the end product.
Just for the record, If we analyse all of the recordings of ALL of the major players, I am sure that we can find all sorts of things to highlight - good and bad. What benefit could we derive from such a scorecard? I know of none.

My advice is to buy the music that you can identify with. Do not be afraid to accept a challenge. Stretch the envelope as far as possible. You do not have to be Maurice André to be able to criticize a Phil Smith.

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

rowuk

One thing does stick out in this reading: NO ALTERNATE FINGERINGS!

Anybody recognize what model horn that is?

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

HoosierDaddy

Look, Goerge Coble is a great player, so let's not even start that discussion.

But if you are going to say something is boring say what is boring about it. Where is it boring? What about the phrasing is boring? Be specific.

dstrad

Jimi and Rowuk -

You both raise very interesting and well thought out points in your posts. But with regard to Phil's performance of this piece I respectfully disagree. I actually got to hear Phil perform the Haydn at a reharsal with NY Phil many years ago. Zubin Mehta was conduting and was running out of rehearsal time. He told someone to go get Mr. Smith. Phil comes out and played it on a Bach Bflat trumpet. Not one sour note. Absolutely nailed it. I've heard him live many times. I have never been anything but inspired by his playing. I could without a doubt identify his sound off a recording. Nobody has as centered an attack as he does. If you ever heard him live you would pick up on that. Also my old trumpet teacher saw Phil play the haydn at Montclair State University oin New Jersey many years ago. It was an impromptu performance and he did it on the only hoprn he had with - a bflat cornet! My teacher said he played it flawlessly.

Jimi - The next time the NY Phil does Shosti 5 try to get to NY. Also, they are doing all of the Brandenburg Concertos and Pictures at an Exhibition next year.