JackD

I bet Miles was an ideal student

wiseone2

I find Miles statements about William Vacchiano unbelievable.
Wilmer

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Manny Laureano

Wilmer,

I know what you mean... there's NO WAY Vacchiano would have just sat that there and taken that kind of guff from anybody. He would have thrown him out. Maybe that's the way Davis REMEMBERED it but I think there was an altered state of reality at work.

Yup, Vacchiano had us play lots of little tunes and things in many keys and we all understood that's what he was doing: getting us comfortable in things different from just F and G major. It IS, after all, an autobiography so I have to believe that Davis had final say as to what went in there. In that case whether he said those things is no longer even the issue. His approval of their getting in the book is.

I'd be interested to know what year this would have been, when he studied with Vacchiano.

ML

trickg

Well, Miles more or less got kicked out of Julliard, didn't he? Maybe that's why.

I know that if I had a student who came to me with a big chip on his shoulder and was giving me attitude like that, I would show them the door and tell them to go find another instructor. Otherwise it would be a waste of my time.

I think that Miles Davis was a legend in his own mind.

Personally, I've never been able to figure out what was so great about his playing, but then again, for the most part, his music doesn't really appeal to me so I've never gone out of my way to listen to a lot of it.

Maybe one day I'll learn to see the genius in it.

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davidquinlan

The year according to the book is probably 1945.

It was also the year he decided to quit ... he recalls a conversation he had, informing his dad he had decided to quit..

There is something happening in New York. The music is changing, the styles, and I want to be in it, with Bird and Diz. So I came back to tell you that I'm quitting Julliard because what they're teaching me is white and I'm not interested in that.

His dad's response..

Ok, as long as you know what you're doing, everything is ok. Just whatever you do, do it good.

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David Quinlan
============

wiseone2

In 1945 there were NO black musicians in american symphonies. Heck, when I graduated high school there were only a couple of string players in symphonies. Miles must have been a very good player to even have gotten into the school.
Most of what is written about Miles' early years is false.
Can we honestly believe that a musician would travel half way across the country to study and have no idea what he was going to be taught? I have never bought that Miles and Vacchiano legend. Miles left to play bebop with Bird, Diz and the guys. The myth sounded like something you would tell your Dad, who was paying for your adventures.
Wilmer

__________________
Be sure Brain is engaged before putting Mouthpiece in gear.
S.Suark 1951

tpter1

Wilmer- Very interesting point of view. I wonder if anyone could for sure confirm your suspicion? Is there a way to get a hold of the list of incoming students at Julliard in 1945 (better yet, 1943-1947 to be sure to take into account incorrect memory or wrong telling of the stories) to see if he really was there or, just as you suggest, out east playing with Bird and Diz on his father's cash. Seems that someone doing a jazz history degree should be able to get that info.

trickg

I thought it was a fairly well established fact that Miles did in fact attend Julliard. What are probably ficticious are his accounts of these "legendary" arguments with William Vacchiano. I just can't imagine a teacher allowing a student to get that mouthy with them, especially not back then.

__________________
Patrick Gleason
email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com

"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
"At my signal, unleash hell."
- Maximus Decimus Meridius

Mikey

Personally, I have never cared for Miles, both in his playing and in his attitude. Maybe it's because I am more of a classical player than a jazzer, but his music never made much sense to me. As far as his attitude, I don't care what he went through in his younger years. That does not warrent behaving like he did.

Manny Laureano

This thread is becoming increasingly more interesting with each post.

If Miles went to school in '45 then Vacchiano would have been principal for only a few years and would have been a member of the Philharmonic for, what, about 10 years, give or take.

It stands to reason that what he was teaching would have been a combination of what he was taught in Portland, ME. and what he learned from Schlossberg plus what he picked up from being on the job playing for the likes of Toscanini and other greats.

The point is, he was just starting to establish himself as a good teacher with his best years still ahead of him. Was Miles going for the name of the school or the teacher, Vacchiano, when he auditioned and was accepted? How much did he really know, I have to wonder, about what to expect from Vacchiano? What did he expect Juilliard to teach him overall? Was he like me in the sense that he really didn't know what to expect? I had an idea that Juilliard was a great place but I didn't know enough to really know why.

I and others could pick up the phone and ask Vacchiano his perspective but we can only draw from Davis what he left in his autobiography.

This is a cool discussion. I'll get the next round if somebody gets the nachos and potato skins.

ML