Studying with Vacchiano: What was it like? - Page 3

wiseone2 · 03-14-2005, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickg

I thought it was a fairly well established fact that Miles did in fact attend Julliard. What are probably ficticious are his accounts of these "legendary" arguments with William Vacchiano. I just can't imagine a teacher allowing a student to get that mouthy with them, especially not back then.

I believe Miles was a student at Juilliard. I think he dropped out very quickly and spent a lot of time hanging with the cats.
I agree also that Miles might have had problems with the truth about his relationship with his teacher.

Wilmer

Anonymous · 03-14-2005, 02:18 PM

That would be awesome!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Laureano

I and others could pick up the phone and ask Vacchiano his perspective but we can only draw from Davis what he left in his autobiography.

This is a cool discussion. I'll get the next round if somebody gets the nachos and potato skins.

ML

trickg · 03-14-2005, 02:23 PM

I just did some quick reading about Miles, Julliard and what he did in his short time in New York. From what I have read, Miles may have been enrolled in classes at Julliard, but it doesn't sound like he spent much time in classes. It sounds to me like he spent most of his time with Diz and Bird and gigging as much as he could.

By the way, how did Miles die? The web sources say it was a stroke, but I also know that Miles lived a pretty hard life - two lifetimes worth of life in fact.

Mikey · 03-14-2005, 02:33 PM

A stroke brought on by too much heroin use?

Mikey · 03-14-2005, 02:34 PM

nachos and po'skins?

Yum yum..........But my cholesterol is too high the way it is...........

JackD · 03-14-2005, 02:38 PM

According to John Szwed's Miles biography ("So What"), Miles auditioned for Julliard in late September 1944, having just had his first child in June that year.

Apparently in his audition he played "Youth Dauntless", by H.L. Clarke.

Szwed says Miles "already knew what to expect [at Julliard] after his studies in St. Louis." He goes on to say: "Miles later claimed they argued over what and how he should be taught. But Vacchiano remembers only that he quickly recognised Davis' special talent, that he was always a good student - polite, cooperative, and willing - and that he had no complaints about Miles."

In 1945 Miles got a B- in trumpet, along with a D and 5 Fs.

Szwed includes a quote from Miles: "[At Julliard] I was going to have to act like a white man toward music. ... There was certain things you had to do, or a certain way you had to play to get in there, to be with them. And I didn't come all the way from St. Louis just to be with a white orchestra."

If you haven't encountered Szwed's book, look it up. It's very well written and helps clear up a lot of the mythology about Miles (a large amount of which appears to come from the mouth of the man himself).

trickg · 03-14-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey

A stroke brought on by too much heroin use?

I might have been thinking something along those lines.

Like I said, Miles lived a HARD life.

It sounds like Miles was a non-conformist. It's also interesting the Black vs White perspective that he threw on it.

The quote from JackD's post could easily be changed to read:

"I was going to have to act like a man toward music. ... There was certain things you had to do, or a certain way you had to play to get in there, to be with them. And I didn't come all the way from St. Louis just to be with an orchestra."

From Miles' own wording, it's not so much that he didn't want to follow white rules, it was that he didn't want to follow "normal" rules, period.

He must have been one heck of an interesting guy.

spirithorn · 03-14-2005, 03:12 PM

One of the things I really enjoy about TM (being a newcomer), is that the threads often take tangents far afield from the original question. But always interesting and informative!

Manny Laureano · 03-14-2005, 03:23 PM

Hey, Spirit... see if this brings us back:

I just got off the phone with William Vacchiano beause my interest was so piqued by the discussion.

He's doing well but "I'm slowin' down a little... I don't walk as fast as I used to."

I asked him to tell me a little about Davis at Juilliard and here's what he said:

"Oh, he was very, very talented. He did very well. You know there were a lot of talented pupils in those days. He had a lot of backing, though. Did you know he already had a contract with Columbia records before he started sudying with me? I don't know how he did it... can you imagine that?"

Those are his recollections.

He went on to talk about to me other things that I'll share at a different time about the business today but I'll put that on a separate post later.

ML

trickg · 03-14-2005, 03:24 PM

Ok, back to the subject of William Vacchiano - here is a quote from him that I like:

"Maybe out of every ten students, you have one with real talent. Then, of course, there’s not too much you have to do. It’s like having a diamond ring. You just polish it a little bit."

I'm like the lump of coal that needs intense pressure and a lot of elbo grease before I shine!

03-14-2005, 02:23 PM	#23 (permalink)
trickg Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland Posts: 2,054	I just did some quick reading about Miles, Julliard and what he did in his short time in New York. From what I have read, Miles may have been enrolled in classes at Julliard, but it doesn't sound like he spent much time in classes. It sounds to me like he spent most of his time with Diz and Bird and gigging as much as he could. By the way, how did Miles die? The web sources say it was a stroke, but I also know that Miles lived a pretty hard life - two lifetimes worth of life in fact. __________________ Patrick Gleason email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com "What we do in life echoes in eternity" "At my signal, unleash hell." - Maximus Decimus Meridius

03-14-2005, 03:24 PM	#30 (permalink)
trickg Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland Posts: 2,054	Ok, back to the subject of William Vacchiano - here is a quote from him that I like: "Maybe out of every ten students, you have one with real talent. Then, of course, there’s not too much you have to do. It’s like having a diamond ring. You just polish it a little bit." I'm like the lump of coal that needs intense pressure and a lot of elbo grease before I shine! __________________ Patrick Gleason email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com "What we do in life echoes in eternity" "At my signal, unleash hell." - Maximus Decimus Meridius

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03-14-2005, 02:33 PM	#24 (permalink)
Mikey Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,864	A stroke brought on by too much heroin use?

03-14-2005, 02:34 PM	#25 (permalink)
Mikey Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,864	nachos and po'skins? Yum yum..........But my cholesterol is too high the way it is...........

03-14-2005, 02:38 PM	#26 (permalink)
JackD Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Manchester / London Posts: 763	According to John Szwed's Miles biography ("So What"), Miles auditioned for Julliard in late September 1944, having just had his first child in June that year. Apparently in his audition he played "Youth Dauntless", by H.L. Clarke. Szwed says Miles "already knew what to expect [at Julliard] after his studies in St. Louis." He goes on to say: "Miles later claimed they argued over what and how he should be taught. But Vacchiano remembers only that he quickly recognised Davis' special talent, that he was always a good student - polite, cooperative, and willing - and that he had no complaints about Miles." In 1945 Miles got a B- in trumpet, along with a D and 5 Fs. Szwed includes a quote from Miles: "[At Julliard] I was going to have to act like a white man toward music. ... There was certain things you had to do, or a certain way you had to play to get in there, to be with them. And I didn't come all the way from St. Louis just to be with a white orchestra." If you haven't encountered Szwed's book, look it up. It's very well written and helps clear up a lot of the mythology about Miles (a large amount of which appears to come from the mouth of the man himself).

03-14-2005, 03:12 PM	#28 (permalink)
spirithorn New Friend Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 24	One of the things I really enjoy about TM (being a newcomer), is that the threads often take tangents far afield from the original question. But always interesting and informative!

03-14-2005, 03:23 PM	#29 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	Hey, Spirit... see if this brings us back: I just got off the phone with William Vacchiano beause my interest was so piqued by the discussion. He's doing well but "I'm slowin' down a little... I don't walk as fast as I used to." I asked him to tell me a little about Davis at Juilliard and here's what he said: "Oh, he was very, very talented. He did very well. You know there were a lot of talented pupils in those days. He had a lot of backing, though. Did you know he already had a contract with Columbia records before he started sudying with me? I don't know how he did it... can you imagine that?" Those are his recollections. He went on to talk about to me other things that I'll share at a different time about the business today but I'll put that on a separate post later. ML

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