B15M

Thanks Wilmer,


I play a lot of piano from the fake book, maybe I'll start reading the real music so I relearn bass clef.

We really don't live that far from each other. Some day if you have time I'll get on a train and we can play some stuff. I'll bring the Monettes if you have any interest in playing them.

Joe

Siegtrmpt

A couple other practical uses for transposition outside of orchestral trumpet parts include being able to read parts originally written for other instruments and reading concert pitch music out of hymnals or lead sheets. When teaching instruments other than trumpet it seems to work better to play along with them on my trumpet rather than hack away on other instruments I don't play very well.

__________________
Bill S.- NY Bach 6, 38 Mt. Vernon 43 Bach "C" cornet, NY Bach trombone 6vii Monette mouthpieces

Benjamin

Yeah, or finding that there was some kind of accident where your instrument was damaged and you have to pull whatever you have out of the gig bag to get the job done. Or worse yet, you pull a bone head mistake and open up your case to find that you have the wrong instrument and you have to go on stage in 5 min.

Ben

__________________
Benjamin E. Browne
National Radio Symphony (SODRE) - Uruguay
Filarmonica de Montevideo
Escuela Universitaria de Música-Universidad de la Republica - Uruguay

camelbrass

Ben,

Sounds like the voice of experience. Perhaps I should have added an extra option to my post above:

1.ease of transposition
2.the degree of technical difficulty of the transposed key
3.security given the tesitura of the piece
4.the appropriateness of its sound within the context of the piece?


5.it's the only one in the case!!!

Regards,


Trevor

lonelyangel

I had some thoughts on this topic.

I started playing cornet in a brass band, aged 4. All of the music I played until I was aged 12 was written in B flat. By that age I had switched to trumpet and was playing in concert wind band, brass ensemble, school orchestra and a community swing band.

It was only when I passed the audition for county youth orchestra that I came across transposed parts. I remember being totally confused and embarrased about not being able to sight read the music in front of me. So I set to work and started to learn what to do.

I would ask to get the music we were playing in advance so that I could learn the parts, at first i used to write them out by hand into B flat - gradually my skills increased and I got up to speed with the other players in the orchestra. As i gained experience I became more comfortable with the mental gymnastics involved. I also began to learn the historic significance of why parts were written in diferent keys and to get a feel for the aesthetic quality of a part 'looking right' in its original key. Still 95% of the music i was playing was written for B flat trumpet - and I only ever used a B flat instrument - so I definitely 'think' in B flat.

From the age of 18 to 22 I studied at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London being blessed with three wonderful teachers, Bernard Brown, Maurice Murphy and Ray Simmonds. I did my fair share of orchestral repertoire classes, brass and wind rep, studying from exerpt books for termly exams - so my transposing skills were improving all the time. However I was never intending to make a career as an orchestral trumpet player and my attention and focus was elsewhere during my time at college. I was siiting in on the post graduate jazz classes, taking extra jazz harmony lessons, going to jazz hangs and jam sessions in town, playing lead trumpet in rehearsal bands and begining to enter the world of work via the stepping stone of NYJO (the National Youth Jazz Orchestra).

The most important uses I had for my transposing skills were to be able to read from a concert pitch lead sheet when learning new jazz standards, to be able to play the occasional french horn part in a big band on flugel, or occasionally to play a first trombone part in a rehearsal.

I have been working in London now for almost 20 years. In that time I can't remember ever having to play a part in E flat, E, F or A ( except for the couple of times that I have played the Soldiers Tale but then I used a 1917 Conn Wonder Cornet which can switch perfectly from A to B flat by using rods and levers).

I occasionaly will come across trumpet parts in C (I played Into the Woods on B flat using the C parts for example) and am pretty happy to transpose most C parts if necessary. Please bear in mind that in the UK the vast majority of professional players do not own a C trumpet.

Very occasionaly i have had to play a part written in D - and although I feel a little uncomfortable about it I can usually cope.

I am these days doing far more orchestral playing than I ever did at college but that is mainly in the recording studios or with symphony orchestras on repertoire which i know well. It is very rare to come across anything other than B flat trumpet parts on film and rock orchestral sessions. There is enormous pressure to sight read almost perfectly and so the parts are written in B flat - because in this country that is the norm. I have occasionaly done a session where the composer has written some cues for C trumpet which is normally fine.

However these days most film composers have all their files with them on computer. It is no problem to have the copiest print out new parts in B flat - or any key come to that, even if the copiest was in NY or LA come to that they could do the job and email a pdf file.

There is no shame in this as far as I am concerned. The approach to take is pragmatic - whatever it takes to get the job done. I always have a couple of sheets of manuscript paper in my case so that I can write something out by hand if necessary.

To sum up. I guess what I am saying is that I respect and understand the transposing tradition. I am very glad to have had the opportunity to study it with such great teachers. Although it is not a skill which I employ on a daily basis, that study makes me a more complete musician than i would otherwise be. I would encourage any student - whatever their musical ambitions - to learn how to transpose. It is hard work but it is good for you - like so many other things in life.

Hope this is of some interest to somebody. All the best, Noel.

k4to

Here goes nothing...my first post ever....just registered this morning. I grew up playing in a church orchestra, out of a hymnbook, Transposing up one step is second nature. I don't have a music degree, but have played 53 years and currently play 60 or more times a year in performance with concert and Big Band jazz groups, plus 40 or more rehearsals. In other words, I play a lot. This Christmas I was invited to play at a church and when I showed up there were two other trumpets. One had a masters degree and the other a very talented amateur. The guy with the masters brought his C horn, because he either couldn't or didn't want to transpose. The other guy had written out his parts. Since the Soprano and alto parts were covered, I opted to play one of the bass clef parts and transposed. My experience singing in church choirs over the years had taught me to read bass clef. I think I gained a bit of respect from my playing partners that day as they realized what I was doing. It was satifying to me also as I had never done that sort of thing before. I guess my main point is transposing is necessary on occasion and can be satisfying.

Thanks for your kind attention.....Dave

lonelyangel

Welcome to TM Dave. Nice post and some good points well made. Keep them coming.

Just a PS to my previous post. I find myself in awe of the transposing skills of some of the orchestral players I work with. For example Kate Moore, principal with the BBC Concert Orchestra, where I frequently work as a commercial lead player. Kate will usually have a B flat, a large 4 valve E Flat, a Piccolo and an F/G trumpet with her. As Manny alluded to earlier she will choose which ever instrument she feels is most appropriate to the particular piece or even passage in a piece. Again this is done for pragmatic reasons - getting the job done - and her skills with cross transposition make this the best system for her. She also has the talent and control to create the right sound for the music, which ever horn she chooses. I could never come close to achieveing the results that she does in this way - but then I guess I have different skills and experience to her, which make me a valuable addition to the section from time to time. Its all about teamwork and its also great fun for me to play in this environment.

Noel.

Siegtrmpt

I think there are those of us who have either done that or those that will eventually. The lead player in a band I'm in recently showed up with only a C trumpet. No time to go home and get it. I let him sweat it out for a little while before I "remembered" the extra trumpet in the trunk of my car. It was good for a few beers. Hope he doesn't read this.

__________________
Bill S.- NY Bach 6, 38 Mt. Vernon 43 Bach "C" cornet, NY Bach trombone 6vii Monette mouthpieces

Alex Yates

^^^ Sieg!

Benjamin

Yeah, it was one of those days that when you are trying to get out of the house, your 5 month old daughter is crying uncontrollably because she is starting the teething process, your 3 year old son is running around screaming at the top of his lungs naked and you are trying to get him dressed so you can get out of the house in 5 min. to get them both to the daycare. You grab your gig bag thinking that you have the appropriate horns for the rehearsal in the bag in your frantic mad dash for the door, because the 3 year old grabbed the keys, opened the door, and started down the large flight of stairs and you are afraid he might fall. You get to the rehearsal and look for your c trumpet and only find your your Eb-D, Picc, and a nice big empty space where your c trumpet should be. Where is the c trumpet you ask? Of course, on the stand in your studio where you left it the night before after you finished practicing.

Ben

__________________
Benjamin E. Browne
National Radio Symphony (SODRE) - Uruguay
Filarmonica de Montevideo
Escuela Universitaria de Música-Universidad de la Republica - Uruguay