screamingmorris

You're 55?
I'm only 52.
Since you are *so* much older than myself, I'd like to ask a question for future reference:
Do Depends really work?

- Morris

Annie

A commitment from the schools may be a hard thing to come by - there are many schools, small and large, where the music department is geared mainly towards classical but may have a jazz ensemble just to satisfy the students and possibly even a teacher. At times, if a teacher strives to improve the jazz education at a university he/she may find himself/herself in a bit of a trouble spot because the tenured faculty disagree with the value of a jazz education.

What needs to change is the list of requirements that the board uses to accredit music departments in colleges - this is where the problem really rests. If the music departments can't get accredited without dealing with at least classical and jazz in equal required classes/ensembles, then we will begin to see an equality in knowledge of the styles in our educators. Yes, it is necessary to have classes in music history - but I don't think that the curriculum of the class is well dealt with - in my music history class I didn't learn about any popular music history or jazz history. There is a required world music class, but that class's curriculum has to cover the world, and not much time for specific styles of jazz. Too often music education programs at colleges only require education in classical Western music, and do not offer required classes in jazz education. Fortunately, the director where I will be graduating from soon wants to sooner or later add in a jazz education class into the program - he sees the need for it.

A great move by the Praxis series tests for music education is that they have included a percentage of the questions to specifically be geared towards jazz and jazz education. When I took the test, there were questions on the topic in the listening portion and the other portion - I was asked to identify a saxophonist merely by listening to him and picking from a few names (I got it right - thanks to my teachers who were professional jazz musicians who felt it was important for me to be at least familiar with the history - but not thanks to the classes I took in college outside of private lessons and jazz ensemble).

Solar Bell

Depends!


-cw-

rowuk

My experience always proved the Buddy Rich lead trumpet book to be a lesson in conservation (and humility!). Get too animal with it and you bury yourself!

Solar Bell

I had Patrick Hession sub with my band a while back.

he played the 2nd book. He told me he enjoyed playing the second and third parts and he ALWAYS enjoys playing lead when there is a very solid section beneath him.

I feel the same way and it was GREAT having him play the second part on the gig.

Mike Williams of the Basie band has also subbed with us on the second book and it is the same thing, the section really cooks with a strong solid player on the second and third books.

(Our band is a 30s-40s swing band and we use only 6 brass)


-cw-

nieuwguyski

I think the break *should* start at F#. What's the lowest "real" note on the trumpet (ignoring pedal tones)? F# below the staff. Why not call that "low F sharp"? Well then, what about first space F#? Why not call it "middle F sharp"? Hmmm. That would make top-line F# "high F sharp," and then the F# above high C would be...

I stick to naming the C's ("low C," "tuning C," "high C," double-high C," etc.), and then naming all other notes in relation to them. I have no idea what a "double G" is, but I do know what a "G above high C" is.

mfhorn63

Well, I have given this some thought, because it has always, at least amongst the pros and educators I have worked with, that G above High C is "Double G." Here's why-

Trumpet players are an odd sort- no other group of players refers to pitches in this manner, except for singers, who usually stop talking at High C. If you consider the range of the most common trumpet, the Bb, it has a range from F# below the staff, to well, wherever. That lowest note is F# below the theory-strict "middle" C, making that "low F#." the next octave of that note is "middle" F#, Followed by "high" 5th line F#, and would then be the first "double" note above high C. If the 1st space F# is "low," what is the octave below? It has been the convention in the circles I have tread- including instruction from Clark Terry, Bud Brisbois, my private teacher who was a first-call Vegas lead, that the hierarchy of pitches on trumpet is: pedal-low-middle-high-double-I'mlyingaboutmyrange. I have always heard low F# referred to as such, F above high C referred to as "high," and the G above that as "double." In terms of the unique vernacular used for trumpet, this makes sense, as it is also consistent with the common usage in music theory. The only thing that causes confusion is the also common habit of calling third-space C "middle C." I do not think that the semantics of this are really all that important, as even experienced band, jazz, and orchestra directors also make reference to "cut time," (there is no such thing- the correct term is "alla breve"), time-signatures (they are meter signatures), "common" time (again, no such thing- that symbol is not a "C", it's two-thirds of a circle- no kidding, this is a true story), and some instrument called "French" horn (it is never referred to as such in any professional score, it's just horn). These are all irrelevant- can the kid hit the note or not?

****This discussion has gotten seriously off-thread, and I apologize to the original poster, who had a very valid question about balance in the jazz band trumpet section. Might I suggest a thread devoted to trumpet semantics? If I write a G above High C, I concern myself much more with whether that note will get reached than what the player will call it when he gets there.

mfhorn63

You are concise to a degree which I admire- as evidenced in the reply I posted before reading yours. As Ed McMahon would sya, "You are CORRECT sir!"

Besides, next to Wayne Bergeron and Eric Miyasashi, our notes range from ultra-low F# to "fair-to-middlin' C!

mfhorn63

VERY true! Jazz is considered a red-headed step-child here in Colorado. On the west coast, it still receives a fair degree of respect. At CSU-Pueblo, the jazz ensembles are not even considered secondary ensembles because of the state's accreditation.

[/quote] What needs to change is the list of requirements that the board uses to accredit music departments in colleges - this is where the problem really rests. If the music departments can't get accredited without dealing with at least classical and jazz in equal required classes/ensembles, then we will begin to see an equality in knowledge of the styles in our educators. Yes, it is necessary to have classes in music history - but I don't think that the curriculum of the class is well dealt with - in my music history class I didn't learn about any popular music history or jazz history. There is a required world music class, but that class's curriculum has to cover the world, and not much time for specific styles of jazz. Too often music education programs at colleges only require education in classical Western music, and do not offer required classes in jazz education. Fortunately, the director where I will be graduating from soon wants to sooner or later add in a jazz education class into the program - he sees the need for it.[/quote]

Again, excellent point! I teach jazz history at a community college, and I'm still amazed that we even have that class! Even in my apprec. classes, I spend three weeks on jazz- it is the trunk from which the mighty tree of American popular music grows (blues, spirituals, and other African_American styles are the roots). *****GOOD LUCK to your director!!! I hope he is successful!!!

[/quote] A great move by the Praxis series tests for music education is that they have included a percentage of the questions to specifically be geared towards jazz and jazz education. When I took the test, there were questions on the topic in the listening portion and the other portion - I was asked to identify a saxophonist merely by listening to him and picking from a few names (I got it right - thanks to my teachers who were professional jazz musicians who felt it was important for me to be at least familiar with the history - but not thanks to the classes I took in college outside of private lessons and jazz ensemble).[/quote]

Here in CO, PLACE reigns. Virtually no addressing of jazz. Figures.

Good luck to you, Annie! What are your plans after grad? Are you in an Ed program? It is very refreshing to find female musicians, on horns other than reeds, who are hip or enthusiastic about jazz, especially large-group. Perhaps you will follow the lead of Toshiko or Maria Schneider....? I wish you the best!!

Joe N.

As Dan Fornero (switches on lead with Wayne in Gordon Goodwin's band) put it, "the sole job of the section players is to make the lead sound good"