jazz_trpt

You need to reinforce primary chord tones and preferred extensions when constructing your lines.

You can certainly consider F-7 to be interchangable with Ebmaj when figuring out what notes are available in the scale, but you'd better know what notes should and shouldn't land on (or off) the beat for the most part, or you're going to have a pretty odd sounding solo.

trpt2345

That's why I said "It is much more important to learn the notes of the chords". If you can play first quarter notes then eighth notes on chord tones through a set of changes the scales will suggest themselves.

Michael McLaughlin

mfhorn63

I agree with many of the things previously stated.

As a jazz educator, it depends on your level of understanding. You seem to have some grasp, so that's good.
I encourage my students to see if a set of changes is modal or chordal. Miles is often modal(Milestones, So What), while Monk is chordal ("Round Midnight). I have always been a "line" player, so Monk has always been a nightmare for me.

I have the student think of the head melody in their, ummm, head. What does it sound like? dorian, aeolian, phrygian? (obviously, they have to practice their modal playing for this to work). Is it dark or bright? What words come to mind when you hear it? Connecting to the melody is, IMHO, important especially in chordal tunes.

I agree that you can't just think of F dorian as Eb Maj starting on F. Some players might be tempted to target notes in Eb Maj, rather than important tones in F dorian. Every melody has a mode, and they aren't really interchangeable. I like using Miles pre-1965 to illustrate a deliberate, melodic technique, solos constructed over a long progression, rather than truncated bebop lines (don't get me wrong- I am in AWE of great boppers!).

Practice both your modal scales and arpeggios, starting with Major: Ionian and Lydian,Mixolydian; and Minor: Dorian and Aeolian. Then add other modes, including melodic and harmonic minors, whole-tone and pentatonic.

I use these as part of my warm-up routine to get my brain loosened up.

Good Luck!!

Jason Parra

This is a subject that really has no definitive answers, of course a scale is a scale and has rules. Your major, minor, blues, chromatics, pentatonic etc all have the accepted rules. Adding variation's and calling or "trademarking" (even pigeonholing?) a variation of a scale into a norm is defeating the very nature of improvising.
I have studied jazz theory through my whole career, what I enjoy now are the "approach" books; non-linear, Liebman (non-diatonic-outside the stated tonality), chromatic pentatonic's/approach by Liebman, the modern sound, lot's of sax books (don't ignore the sax books---I have a theory that they keep these secrets hidden as payback for hearing loss).
The standard books you should have are The Jazz Language by Dan Haerle, Jerry Coker and David Baker Gil, Bill Evans and the standard Aebersold material is basic but good. I have a lot of material in .PDF form, I can mail email some to you if you want. Including the free (but fairly thorough) Aebersold Jazz Handbook---55 pages with an exam. He gives these away, so this post is not violating any copyright law.

My main point is to use what works/clicks naturally for YOU. Everyone has a unique way their brain translates stimulus, and then outputs to the physical (chops/fingers---hand/eye etc) if you get to the point where very little thought goes into dissecting changes, then the resulting solo will be jazz at its best......Creativity, improvising from your emotions and core/soul. Thats where and when the magic takes place. I think Obi Wan Kenobi had some thoughts on this..............CRAP, now the SW theme is stuck in my head.

Here two parting tips: 1) If you land on a note that is absolutely nasty, remember that a half step up or down leads you to a note that is good.
2) If you land on a note that is simply awful.........Just play it in a pattern for a while like you meant to do it, then modulate back to the proper changes. Then everyone will say: "Wow!!....This cat is intense, he's so outside he's inside, that's a bad mutha*.#..."

Cheers, and good luck to you.

Jason

mfhorn63

Jason's response reminds me of a quote attributed to Count Basie, but it may just be one of those "mythical" things:
"If you are improvising and play a note that sounds bad, play it again. That way, everybody will think you did it on purpose!"

S-Money

Just another quick thought from a guy whos really starting to get into jazz and learning things new things every time he plays...

While an Eb major scale has all the same note names as an F dorian, it SOUNDS completely different. Each mode has its own unique sound and quality. Playing F dorian sounds totally different than Eb ionian. You can play an Eb major over it (maybe after a bit of playing in F dorian) and it might sound neat as a different approach to improvising, but you should (at least at first) stick to whats written; stick to the way the chord and scale sounds... its unique quality

of course, then its fun to color outside the lines!