Latin Jazz, getting started - Page 2

eisprl · 09-19-2006, 10:22 AM

I am a huge fan of this music and have been in this phase for a few years now. My #1 influence is Arturo Sandoval. You would love the movie about him (Starring Any Garcia) its called "For Love or Country". It's brilliant and it tells the story of Arturo and his struggle with plying the music that he loves.

My favorite album that I own by him is "The Very Best of Arturo Sandoval" you wanna talk about great music (up beat and everything)

Eric

trpt2345 · 09-19-2006, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PINCHUNO

Ralph Irrizarry. Nueva Manteca. Bryan Lynch. Conrad Herwig. Some Irakere records. The best mix of Latin Jazz (IMO) is having a good Latin rhythm section with seasoned jazz soloists. .

I find a lot of times that "seasoned jazz soloists" don't work really well in that context many times because they just play their regular stuff over the rhythm section and ignore the clave. Much better to get soloists who have internalized all that rhythm stuff and don't cross the clave and play things that fit the rhythm.

Michael McLaughlin

My wife cut me down to twice a month, but I don't feel so bad, she cut some other guys out altogether.
Rodney Dangerfield

wiseone2 · 09-19-2006, 10:56 PM

Machito was the first Latin jazz I listened to.............well, maybe it was Diz.
My mentor was Victor Paz, I listened to Vitin playing the lead chair with Eddie Palmieri and marveled at his concept of sound and time. I got a chance to play with Mario Bauza and several other bands, thanks to Victor.
Your ears are your best teacher.
Wilmer

ilikethetrumpet · 09-20-2006, 01:05 AM

Arturo's Arturo and he can sure play the hell out of the horn, but on Irakere records--and everywhere else--I'm just floored by Chucho Valdes, Irakere's pianist and arranger. He's put out a dizzying streak of albums lately, each one more interesting than the last. When the Iron Curtain fell, Russian musicians of course flocked into Western European/American performance markets. If we ever open up to Cuba... Chucho has such a rhythmic mastery, but he also has an encyclopedic command of Western classical and jazz vocabulary. One albums like Live at the Village Vanguard (one of the times he got into the US to play), he'll toss in a Debussy or Rachmaninov quote and his touch is just spot-on. Then he'll be Art Tatum for a few choruses, he'll be a rhythm machine on another piece (or every piece), a singer on the next... The Cuban conservatory training is, or at least the last I heard, absolutely top-notch. He has a classical album too which is really interesting.

The jazz, classical, and Cuban elements in his playing work when they're synthesized so well because he has so much integrity in each area. I"m actually listening to Roy Hargrove's "Habana" now. It's all over the map stylistically, from "jazz" to salsa to more of a world or jam-band vibe, but Valdes holds it down, Hargrove is the master of the hook, and Frank Lacy is Frank Lacy.

I've seen both Jimmy Dura and Poncho Sanchez live a couple times apiece, and they give great live shows.

Also, learning how to dance really opens up doors for soloing.

Ari · 09-27-2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari

I had to bring this thread up again. I downloaded a version of "blue bossa". The artist name was John Coltrane, but this is definitively not Coltrane.

It has an uptempo latin feel to it, not bossa or samba, more afro-cuban, with a syncopated bass, with percussionists (i can hear timbales and congas). The melody is arranged for several wind instruments (flute, tenor saxophone, trumpet, trombone). After the melody the piano takes a solo (you can also hear him "sing" along while he play), then the fluteist, followed by the saxophonist, then the bass. Then the trumpetist and trombonist take 4 bars each, followed by percussion solos a couple of times.

Does anybody know the name of this band?

Okay, I found out that this was taken from "Mccoy Tyner and the latin all-stars". Does anybody have this record?

NickD · 09-27-2006, 11:17 PM

Well, I had to jump in here.

I LOVE Latin music.

First, I would listen to ANYTHING Mike McLaughlin (Trpt12345) has to say. He KNOWS this stuff COLD!

If I had to pick bands or trumpeters to listen to for Latin Jazz, in addition to Arturo, I'd listen to Ray Vega and Brian Lynch. Also Jesus Allemande (not sure of the spelling - typing off the cuff) and Cubanissimo are a must.

I recently revived and stepped up my study of Salsa. I've been hanging out with guys who are REALLY good at this and sitting in and listening to them on gigs. In Chicago, I've been dropping by the Cafe Bolero as often as I can. I'll sit in when invited and sit and listen and literally take notes. I bought a Latin Real Book a few years ago, and I've been learing tunes from it, in addtion to getting my hands on dozens of CD of bands from NYC, Cuba, Puerto Rico, etc.

In additon to learing the importance of clave rhythms, I'd learn piano montunos and tumbao bass lines. It doesn't matter if your piano chops are good (unless you want to play piano on gigs!). It just really helps to have a strong understanding of what those parts of the band are doing to know where you fit in.

Really dig into this! Latin/Salsa music is some of the most joy fulled music you'll ever play. No matter how bummed out I might be or how lame things get, I can alwys lift my spirits by listeing to or playing Latin music.

Personally, I am trying to book gigs doing this music over basic jobbing, when I can. There are times I'd rather work for less bread and play music that's good for the soul.

Have fun.

Nick

lemons · 09-28-2006, 11:03 AM

Hello all. My name is Kevin Bryan and I'm a freelance player in the NYC area. This is a subject that is near and dear. I had the opportunity about a decade ago to take several lessons with Victor Paz. Wow. Enough concept in 10 lessons to last the rest of one's career. Although he was/is tremendously versatile ( a look at his discography will show credits ranging from Tito Puente to Cats to Benny Goodman ), it was his Latin playing that has been most inspirational to me. Some great examples of his spectacular lead playing can be found on the following albums.
Tito Rodriguez:
Carnival of the Americas
Tito #1
Big Band Latino

Tito Puente:
Cuba Y Puerto Rico Son......
This record features the magnificent voice of Celia Cruz at a real peak.

Eddie Palmieri:
Unfinished Masterpiece
Musica Latina (Palmieri's "white album")
The Sun of Latin Music

On the first two albums Victor overdubs all of the trumpet sections. Talk about unified time concept, heh heh. On the third, I believe, the 2nd trumpet is the wonderful Virgil Jones.

Happy listening.

-Kevin

NickD · 10-18-2006, 02:46 PM

Last night I was down at Cafe Bolero (Belden and Western in Chicago). I listened for a set and a half and bugged my buddies in the band for more ideas bout phrasing with the clave. Then I sat in for a set. It was a blast, as always.

Mike's post about jazz guys often crossing the clave really piqued my interest. I THINK I feel this stuff just fine, but I had to admit that I really have not focused on the clave before. I've always focused on the tumbao bass and piano montunos.

When I bugged the guys in the band about it, they had some good advice. I have taken to learning piano montunos - on PIANO (as part of my piano training). While the guys in the band applauded my effort to really learn their music correctly, they urged me to sit down at my DRUMSET first and practice playing cascara rhythms in the right hand wile playing the clave in the right. Then I should play the cowbell rhythms in the right hand against the clave, etc. They wanted me to practice both 2-3 and 3-2 in both son and rumba form. THEN I should work on the montunos with a tumbao bass in the left hand.

What I found REALLY interesting was the fact that everyone I showed the piano montunos to had a tough time telling which clave they fit (even the really seasoned Latin musicians!)!! I wasn't rally sure what to amke of this. One fellow who plays in this band is an expert pianist and trombone player in the idiom. He wrote a fine graduate paper on the matter. He wasn't availalbe to answer the questions. I hope he's there next week. I wo9uld love to hear his ideas on these written montunos.

Several of the guys in this band are teachers running highly respected Latin jazz programs (as is our own Mike McLaughlin). These programs are aimed at youth. Alas there are no programs for middle-aged seasoned musicians who are struggling to really master this music and truly respect it for the first time. So, I guess its the night clubs for me!

TTFN

ND

Ari · 10-18-2006, 04:59 PM

great post!! I am interested in latin percussion and actually I´ve just started practicing congas. I also have played cascara and clave patterns and tumbao lines on bass-guitar. I play the piano quite a bit, but do not know many montunos. Do you have it written out?

NickD · 10-18-2006, 09:34 PM

I have the Latin Real Book, which has a great deal of support info - rhythm section scores and montunos for various styles and forms, with clave parts. I also have ther "Learn To Play Latin Piano" book by Riccardo Scivales. It has SOME support info. I've got the Rebecca Mauleon book on Latin styles. It is chock full of examples. Finally I have the graduate paper and sample scores by Chicogan, Art Magana.

Each of these sources has many written examples of everything. However, as nice as all of that is, listening to the music and well as trying to play the percussion and piano parts seems like the way to go. At least, that is what I am trying to do now.

I have a buddy who is an expert Latin style bass player. I just found out he spent several weeks in Havana on two separate trips in the last year or so. I have to hook up with him to find out what that experience was like. I may have to consider someting like this, myself, if I am to really learn this stuff. a bit of a long shot for me, though (one year till I have to face college tuition for my son!).

TTFN

ND

09-19-2006, 10:22 AM	#11 (permalink)
eisprl Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Halifax, NS CANADA Posts: 506	I am a huge fan of this music and have been in this phase for a few years now. My #1 influence is Arturo Sandoval. You would love the movie about him (Starring Any Garcia) its called "For Love or Country". It's brilliant and it tells the story of Arturo and his struggle with plying the music that he loves. My favorite album that I own by him is "The Very Best of Arturo Sandoval" you wanna talk about great music (up beat and everything) Eric __________________ Eric Sproul Practice is like filling a leaky bucket Bb: Yamaha Xeno 8335 C: Bach Stadivarious 239L and 25A leadpipe (Owned by Eric Sholtz) Flugel: Yamaha Bobby Shew 6310Z Mouthpieces: GR tech www.stadband.ca

09-19-2006, 10:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
wiseone2 Artitst in Residence Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brooklyn,NY Posts: 2,366	Machito was the first Latin jazz I listened to.............well, maybe it was Diz. My mentor was Victor Paz, I listened to Vitin playing the lead chair with Eddie Palmieri and marveled at his concept of sound and time. I got a chance to play with Mario Bauza and several other bands, thanks to Victor. Your ears are your best teacher. Wilmer __________________ Be sure Brain is engaged before putting Mouthpiece in gear. S.Suark 1951

09-27-2006, 11:17 PM	#16 (permalink)
NickD Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago northern suburbs Posts: 826	Ah Salsa!!! LOVE IT! Well, I had to jump in here. I LOVE Latin music. First, I would listen to ANYTHING Mike McLaughlin (Trpt12345) has to say. He KNOWS this stuff COLD! If I had to pick bands or trumpeters to listen to for Latin Jazz, in addition to Arturo, I'd listen to Ray Vega and Brian Lynch. Also Jesus Allemande (not sure of the spelling - typing off the cuff) and Cubanissimo are a must. I recently revived and stepped up my study of Salsa. I've been hanging out with guys who are REALLY good at this and sitting in and listening to them on gigs. In Chicago, I've been dropping by the Cafe Bolero as often as I can. I'll sit in when invited and sit and listen and literally take notes. I bought a Latin Real Book a few years ago, and I've been learing tunes from it, in addtion to getting my hands on dozens of CD of bands from NYC, Cuba, Puerto Rico, etc. In additon to learing the importance of clave rhythms, I'd learn piano montunos and tumbao bass lines. It doesn't matter if your piano chops are good (unless you want to play piano on gigs!). It just really helps to have a strong understanding of what those parts of the band are doing to know where you fit in. Really dig into this! Latin/Salsa music is some of the most joy fulled music you'll ever play. No matter how bummed out I might be or how lame things get, I can alwys lift my spirits by listeing to or playing Latin music. Personally, I am trying to book gigs doing this music over basic jobbing, when I can. There are times I'd rather work for less bread and play music that's good for the soul. Have fun. Nick __________________ NickD "Free Online Lessons in Extreme Trumpet Playing" http://www.nickdrozdoff.com http://www.newyorktrumpetcompany.com/ http://www.myspace.com/nickdrozdoff

10-18-2006, 02:46 PM	#18 (permalink)
NickD Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago northern suburbs Posts: 826	Interesting evening... Last night I was down at Cafe Bolero (Belden and Western in Chicago). I listened for a set and a half and bugged my buddies in the band for more ideas bout phrasing with the clave. Then I sat in for a set. It was a blast, as always. Mike's post about jazz guys often crossing the clave really piqued my interest. I THINK I feel this stuff just fine, but I had to admit that I really have not focused on the clave before. I've always focused on the tumbao bass and piano montunos. When I bugged the guys in the band about it, they had some good advice. I have taken to learning piano montunos - on PIANO (as part of my piano training). While the guys in the band applauded my effort to really learn their music correctly, they urged me to sit down at my DRUMSET first and practice playing cascara rhythms in the right hand wile playing the clave in the right. Then I should play the cowbell rhythms in the right hand against the clave, etc. They wanted me to practice both 2-3 and 3-2 in both son and rumba form. THEN I should work on the montunos with a tumbao bass in the left hand. What I found REALLY interesting was the fact that everyone I showed the piano montunos to had a tough time telling which clave they fit (even the really seasoned Latin musicians!)!! I wasn't rally sure what to amke of this. One fellow who plays in this band is an expert pianist and trombone player in the idiom. He wrote a fine graduate paper on the matter. He wasn't availalbe to answer the questions. I hope he's there next week. I wo9uld love to hear his ideas on these written montunos. Several of the guys in this band are teachers running highly respected Latin jazz programs (as is our own Mike McLaughlin). These programs are aimed at youth. Alas there are no programs for middle-aged seasoned musicians who are struggling to really master this music and truly respect it for the first time. So, I guess its the night clubs for me! TTFN ND __________________ NickD "Free Online Lessons in Extreme Trumpet Playing" http://www.nickdrozdoff.com http://www.newyorktrumpetcompany.com/ http://www.myspace.com/nickdrozdoff

10-18-2006, 09:34 PM	#20 (permalink)
NickD Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago northern suburbs Posts: 826	I have several books... I have the Latin Real Book, which has a great deal of support info - rhythm section scores and montunos for various styles and forms, with clave parts. I also have ther "Learn To Play Latin Piano" book by Riccardo Scivales. It has SOME support info. I've got the Rebecca Mauleon book on Latin styles. It is chock full of examples. Finally I have the graduate paper and sample scores by Chicogan, Art Magana. Each of these sources has many written examples of everything. However, as nice as all of that is, listening to the music and well as trying to play the percussion and piano parts seems like the way to go. At least, that is what I am trying to do now. I have a buddy who is an expert Latin style bass player. I just found out he spent several weeks in Havana on two separate trips in the last year or so. I have to hook up with him to find out what that experience was like. I may have to consider someting like this, myself, if I am to really learn this stuff. a bit of a long shot for me, though (one year till I have to face college tuition for my son!). TTFN ND __________________ NickD "Free Online Lessons in Extreme Trumpet Playing" http://www.nickdrozdoff.com http://www.newyorktrumpetcompany.com/ http://www.myspace.com/nickdrozdoff

09-20-2006, 01:05 AM	#14 (permalink)
ilikethetrumpet Pianissimo User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Iowa City, Iowa Posts: 119	Arturo's Arturo and he can sure play the hell out of the horn, but on Irakere records--and everywhere else--I'm just floored by Chucho Valdes, Irakere's pianist and arranger. He's put out a dizzying streak of albums lately, each one more interesting than the last. When the Iron Curtain fell, Russian musicians of course flocked into Western European/American performance markets. If we ever open up to Cuba... Chucho has such a rhythmic mastery, but he also has an encyclopedic command of Western classical and jazz vocabulary. One albums like Live at the Village Vanguard (one of the times he got into the US to play), he'll toss in a Debussy or Rachmaninov quote and his touch is just spot-on. Then he'll be Art Tatum for a few choruses, he'll be a rhythm machine on another piece (or every piece), a singer on the next... The Cuban conservatory training is, or at least the last I heard, absolutely top-notch. He has a classical album too which is really interesting. The jazz, classical, and Cuban elements in his playing work when they're synthesized so well because he has so much integrity in each area. I"m actually listening to Roy Hargrove's "Habana" now. It's all over the map stylistically, from "jazz" to salsa to more of a world or jam-band vibe, but Valdes holds it down, Hargrove is the master of the hook, and Frank Lacy is Frank Lacy. I've seen both Jimmy Dura and Poncho Sanchez live a couple times apiece, and they give great live shows. Also, learning how to dance really opens up doors for soloing.

09-28-2006, 11:03 AM	#17 (permalink)
lemons New Friend Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 40	Hello all. My name is Kevin Bryan and I'm a freelance player in the NYC area. This is a subject that is near and dear. I had the opportunity about a decade ago to take several lessons with Victor Paz. Wow. Enough concept in 10 lessons to last the rest of one's career. Although he was/is tremendously versatile ( a look at his discography will show credits ranging from Tito Puente to Cats to Benny Goodman ), it was his Latin playing that has been most inspirational to me. Some great examples of his spectacular lead playing can be found on the following albums. Tito Rodriguez: Carnival of the Americas Tito #1 Big Band Latino Tito Puente: Cuba Y Puerto Rico Son...... This record features the magnificent voice of Celia Cruz at a real peak. Eddie Palmieri: Unfinished Masterpiece Musica Latina (Palmieri's "white album") The Sun of Latin Music On the first two albums Victor overdubs all of the trumpet sections. Talk about unified time concept, heh heh. On the third, I believe, the 2nd trumpet is the wonderful Virgil Jones. Happy listening. -Kevin

10-18-2006, 04:59 PM	#19 (permalink)
Ari New Friend Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 34	great post!! I am interested in latin percussion and actually I´ve just started practicing congas. I also have played cascara and clave patterns and tumbao lines on bass-guitar. I play the piano quite a bit, but do not know many montunos. Do you have it written out?

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