wiseone2

Snooky, Jonesy, Ernie and Bernie!
Wilmer

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TrentAustin

Now you're speaking my language. What great sound model concepts!
-T

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joey

Maybe I'm not being clear enough. First, forget about the 'market' and think about your playing. I notice in your response (quoted above), you mention 'clear' sound, but not full. You can have the clearest 'lazer-beam' sound in the world, and I'm not going to think it's full.

Of the great examples listed, let's take one of my, and hopefully everybody's, favorites: Snooky Young. If you don't own 'Atomic Basie', go out and buy it. I'll wait.......

Okay, listen to the whole CD. Now, since we're talking about sound, we'll leave the phenomenal musicality for another day. Here's what I want you to notice. When the band is in a shout chorus, the sound you hear is a whole band, with Snooky leading the way. Just as importantly, when there are unison lines, there is a section sound of 4 guys with no one sticking out.

What you hear is a full clear sound that both leads and blends. What could be better?

If that's not clear enough, think about it this way: What sound would you like as a soloist? Words that never come into my head are: compact and zippy. Since the lead trumpet has such a large responsibility in creating the sound of the band, why do you want your band to sound compact?

The thought process of playing 'lead' being a fundamentally different approach than other trumpet playing frustrates me. But this begins a rant I won't subject you to just yet.

Remember, trumpet is trumpet.

Music is style.

Joey Tartell

camelbrass

I feel somewhat intimidated just adding to this thread!!!

However, just by coincidence a very similar conversation came up last night between sets in the 'green room' and the concensus was that what was really important was the balance in the section. The 'wall of sound' if you like.

I must admit that being a section player makes my life lots more comfortable being able to concentrate on putting the harmonies on pitch and in the right place rather than having to back up a guy that's all over the place. Give me the musical, big sounding section with the lead guy doing just that...leading...it sounds tighter and more in tune and that, for me, has always been the hallmark of a great band.

Just a different perspective.

Regards,

Trevor

trickg

My only addition to this thread comes as a listener, not as a lead player because I've never really had the kind of high chops that it takes to do it properly, and thus, I live my life as the unsung "utility/section" player.

Trust Joey on what he says on the subject - I've heard him play lead, and although it was quite a while ago, he knew his business back then so I can only assume he still does.

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PH

I play second or third trumpet to Joey on a fairly regular basis. He is one of the easiest people to play section with in the world. Part of it is his consistency, musicality of phrasing, dynamics, etc...but those are also for future threads.

The best lead trumpet players are easy for me to play with because they have sounds that do not stick out from the band. It's the top note, for goodness sake. It's going to stick out anyway. Play the music musically and lead the band.

You don't expect your concertmaster to stick out from the rest of the fiddles, do you?

I hate it when "lead" players think they have to play bright, or worse, they play sharp in order to sizzle and stand out. A good lead trumpet sound (any good trumpet sound, in fact) has brilliance AND richness...it has the full spectrum. Bright without opulence is really just shrill.

Also, do not mistake the way a guy sounds on recordings (after the engineer works their magic for good or ill) for the way a person sounds live and up close.

p.s. In person Bobby Shew's sound is not "laser". It is very rich and opulent.

p.s.s. Roger Ingram is another guy who people mistakenly think has a "laser" sound. I know Joey has played a good many gigs (Woody Herman gigs for example) where he splits part of the lead book with Roger. It would be interesting to hear Joey's take on this.

Actually, it would be interesting to hear Tiberi or Fedchock or one of the other non-trumpet players take on this. Wonder if we could lure Fed over here for a minute?

trickg

Something else to note about the way Joey plays lead from what I remember hearing him live years ago, is that he always made it seem effortless - just floating along on top of everything else, but always solid and always accurate, and the band hinged on what he was doing. It seemed to me that he didn't feel the need to overpower everone in the band like I have heard other lead players do. It was a nice and relaxed feel that really drove the band.

I've also had the opportunity to play with John Blount - another guy who just nails it down. Yet another is a guy named Paul DuBois.

The thing that really makes playing with guys like that so much fun is not so much because they are hittin' the notes only dogs can hear, it's the WAY they play it. Pat really hit it when it said that a lead player's sound has as much to do with their musical phrasing as the sound itself.

I'm really enjoying this thread!

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Patrick Gleason
email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com

"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
"At my signal, unleash hell."
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Bear

to build on the last two posters... a favorite comment of mine, and I'm sorry I forgot from whom or where I heard it.


A good lead player makes the band look good,
A bad lead player makes himself look good.

missednote

The whole reason I started up this post was because of a few CD's I was listening to the other night. And actually Atomic Basie was one of them. Great disc. Anyway, I noticed a really big difference between different lead players and their sounds. And all you guys are right about clearness, fullness, intonation, accuracy, blend, balance style and all of that. Think of all the threads we could start. I am just talking about the characteristics of the of the sound.

Patrick, you mentioned John Blount. I had the pleasure of hearing him play several times when he was with the Navy Commodores. Now he is a great example of a wall of sound. To me he's got a HUGE sound. I heard him play outside and it scared me how powerful his double C's were from 20 yards away. It was a ROAR. I've also heard Bobby Shew perform. I didn't mean to take anything away from his sound in my prior post by calling it compact and zippy. It's just a different intensity compared to say Maynard.

One of the CD's I was listening to the other night was an Army Blues CD. They are the Army's top big band. Leisel Whitaker plays lead for them now and she's one of the finest lead players I've ever heard. I used to live in the DC area prior to joining the Navy and I had many chances to hear all the top military big bands. It's interesting to me that all those lead players(now that Johns retired) seem to lean towards the more compact sound. And this also seems to be the case with all the big bands I've heard live in the past year or so. So I guess that's the whole point of my post here. I was just commenting on the trend away from the wall of sound. Anyone else notice this? I seem to be having a hard time tying this up so I'll just leave. Thanks for listening.
-missednote

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oops! missed another.....

Billy B

I have heard a bit of complaining from some of the Woody guys about Roger. I personally wouldn't copy that sound. I am more into Snooky, Stahl, Porcino, Gardner.