John Mohan

I think in this case the Kanstul Comparator is not accurate.

They only scanned one sample of each size mouthpiece. The particular Mount Vernon 3 scanned might not have been a typical sample (maybe it was a custom). Or perhaps a mistake was made in the labelling of the scan in this case.

John

dburdett

I wish Kanstul would add some more makers to the Comparator list. I'd love to see my Reeves pieces there. I wonder what my 43C looks like. There also seem to be about a thousand Giardinelli sizes there. Are those the original or the new cheapo Giardinellis? Does anyone play them anymore?

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Benge MLP B flat,Bach 229 LB H pipe , Bach 189 E Flat, Yamaha 635T Flugel, Yamaha Custom Piccolo, Reeves 43S

regularsopguy

I think the comparator is only as good as the originals that were scanned. We all know now inconsistent bach mouthpieces are/were.

Schwab

One of my friends plays on a New York Bach 3, it is nothing like a modern 3C, the NY 3 is HUGE, wider rim, very deep cup.

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Dylan Schwab
Stage 1 New York

dburdett

The New York 3 is huge. This was the Mount Vernon 3.

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Benge MLP B flat,Bach 229 LB H pipe , Bach 189 E Flat, Yamaha 635T Flugel, Yamaha Custom Piccolo, Reeves 43S

trickg

While I think that the mouthpiece comparator is a fun little tool, I have never really used it as a means to tell me anything pertinent about a mouthpiece. Seriously, what does it really tell you when you compare two cups? What shows on the screen and how something feels on your face might be totally different. On top of that, you have the variables of throat, length of throat, taper of backbore, width of the shank, length of the shank, how it fits in the trumpet and how much gap is there....there are too many variables to really take into acount.

Again, a fun tool to play with, but to me it just doesn't offer anything useful.

__________________
Patrick Gleason
email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com

"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
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tooslick

I have a Laskey 65mc which is supposed to be a replica of the MV 3c. I obtained a Bach 3c(not an MV). The rim, bite, and cup volume are WAY different on these two. One thing to keep in mind is that Kanstul measured one mouthpiece of each size for their comparator. With Bach's inconsistency, I'm not sure how many pieces you would have to measure to get representative numbers.

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1925 Cleveland peashooter
1927 Conn 22B
1927 Martin Handcraft
1935 Holton Revelation
1949 Olds Ambassador
1950's? Getzen Super Deluxe
1990's Holton T101

dburdett

Can there be someone out there who will make a comparison chart of some kind that uses actual measurements taken by that person or persons as opposed to using the "manufacturers" size descriptions? There are some interesting charts out there, but most use the measurements of the maker.

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Benge MLP B flat,Bach 229 LB H pipe , Bach 189 E Flat, Yamaha 635T Flugel, Yamaha Custom Piccolo, Reeves 43S

John Mohan

I haven't tried the Mount Vernon 3 copy, but a while back I ordered a Mount Vernon 1 copy. One of my subs from "Der Glöckner von Notre Dame" who also plays 1st trumpet for the Berlin Polizei Orchester, and who plays a Mount Vernon 1 felt it was bigger than his, and I tend to agree. It seems like they got the shape of the rim and cup right, but the over-all size was a little bigger.

In addition, when I took a couple of Kanstul-made mouthpieces (a CG Personal and one of my own Mohan 7MV mouthpieces) to Karl Hammond to have him cut them into Screw-Rim Underparts to fit to my Reeves 43 Rims, we found that the mouthpieces weren't bored right on center.

I'm sorry to say, at this point I don't really trust the workmanship of the Kanstul company when it comes to mouthpieces (though I think they make great horns).

Sincerely,

John Mohan
semi-retired trumpet player
Biomedical Engineering Student at IIT

John Mohan

Try this in-house Kanstul Comparator:

Kanstul Mouthpiece Comparator

You'll find some of the REEVES and others as well that don't appear on the public Comparator. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a 43C, just a "43" "43S" and a "43ES". Weird, because there is no such thing a plain "43" with Bob Reeves, and this "43" mouthpiece as an alpha angle that is too low (refer to GR Mouthpieces explaination of alpha angle at GR Mouthpiece Questions if you need an explanation about alpha angles). Same problem with their depiction of a "43S" - the alpha angle is wrong. There is a problem with the "43ES" scan as well. It shows a very sharp inner edge, which is not the case with the Reeves 43 rimmed mouthpieces But at least its alpha angle looks to be correct. I have further reason to believe that other than the wierd too-sharp inner edge, the 43ES scan is probably fairly accurate: If you line it up against a scan of the CG Personal, you can see that if a screw-rim setup was made using the 43ES rim with a CG Personal underpart it would match up in theory - and it DOES match up in real life, as I had this setup made a few years ago (screw-rim with a Reeves 43 Rim and a CG Personal Underpart). THis leads me to believe that other than the overly sharp inner rim edge, the 43ES depiction is pretty accurate. So:

What you could do to get an idea of the size and shape of your 43C mouthpiece is to line up this Comparator's "43ES" with its rendition of the 42CPC (a piccolo trumpet mouthpiece that has the same rim and cup as a 42C). I think this would give you an idea of the size and shape of your 43C. Basically, a 43C is similar in size to a Bach 3C, but slightly shallower, slightly smaller in diameter, with a slightly wider rim, with a slightly softer inner edge "bite".

I played for many years on a 43C - I did 1st trumpet for "West Side Story" in Basel, Switzerland on it, then I played for the European Tour of the Musical "Grease" for several years with it. It's a GREAT mouthpiece! Big sound, bright sound and easy high notes. I've recently switched to the 42C (which is about the size of a slightly shallow Bach 10 1/2 C). It gives similar sound and feeling as the 43C, but with an even easier upper register, a slightly more focused and maybe darker sound (strange to be darker but that's how it seems), and a bit more endurance. The trade off is, I don't think the 42C has the same "big" feeling to the sound. It can be loud, and it SCREAMS on the high notes, but the 43C seems to me to give a bigger, Conrad Gozzo type sound in the middle register that the 42C doesn't quite match.

Best wishes,

John