crazyhorns

Take a look at this :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=41398

or just enter 3700634672 into the ebay search...

Looks alot like a Marcinkiewicz... but somethin' ain't right...

Maybe we should give Joe Marcink a heads-up on this? AND they're using Bobby Shew's name....

Whoa ... It's worse than I thought..... I just clicked "View Seller's Other Items". ...

~Steve Hyde~

Larry Gianni

Hey Crazyhorns,

this guys has a Bobby Shew model and a Charles Findlay model.

Bobby's in town right now and so is Chuck, If someone wants to call Joe M. about it, I'll call they other guys.

Maybe Bobby and Chuck are moonlighting, but I doubt it. Bobby is so protective of his association with Yamaha that I've seen him not want to try anyone else's trumpet at a clinic or rehearsal just in-case a person takes a picture at that moment and some how Yamaha see's a picture of him holding another brand.

Whoa , is right.

Hey Craze ,you were right, ( sorry, off topic ) Mic's changed to the D rim, needed something today so he called. he's said to pass the word he's looking for any magnesium alloy Studio D's out there, 24 throat would be killer ( not the point of his call, just a sidebar topic ) .

You know me, I'm a firm believer in " Accuracy for Gearhead's "

LG

The 2 rings around the throat on a official Joe M piece are rounded, not squared off like in the picture , squared off is a simpler and cheaper cut to make, and the blank is a little more skeltonized like a Jet -tone with a flat band right under the outer rim that has his name and model on it. this bland looks more like a Dennis Wick / Conn blank without the flat bands.

Hey , maybe i can finally have the Larenzo Miravalle Gianni II made by these guys. Probably , won't fit on the band with marckietwitz musical products. Hey, do they ever say Joe Marciekiewitz or Marciekeiwitz Musical Products of just MMP? Joe used his full name and city and zipcode on his burbank and Canby pieces , like Reeves does.

I got real early Marc. pieces that say Burbank, Ca, then he went to the Glendale, Ca stamp ( Glendale is the next town over ) while still in the Burbank location. I don't know why.

Calicchio / E. Benge / Kanstul / Reeves Trivia:

John Duda ( now owner of Calicchio ) and Joe Lintz ( Eldon Benge shop foreman ) both quit Joe M's shop and came to work at Calicchio's in 1986.
Before the brief time with Joe M, they both worked for Zig Kanstul in his Fullerton Shop. Lou Duda ( Johns' father ), Joe Lintz and Zig all worked for Eldon Benge in his Burbank Shop. Bob Reeves also worked for Eldon Benge with Lou Duda and Joe Lintz but left in the mid 60's to work with D. Purviance mouthpieces then eventually started Bob Reeves Brass mouthpieces out of his garage in the late 60's making his now famous 69 and 692 backbores in 1969 ( the 69 was first , then the 69-2 came along, get it )

Bruce Lee

I want to say "Thanks" to Larry for taking the time to respond to me, both privately, and on this forum!

As Larry pointed out with this statement, the "black and white" of the screen often creates the problem.: "

The inherent problem with written communication, on a personnel level, is sometimes the actual intent , without the benefit of facial expression and body language, that is customary to actual interpretation instead of perceived interpretation in normal communication between people is absent and this lack of additional subliminal info to the brain can easily bring on mis-construed results."

How true! Uh-huh! Okidokie! Tru dat! Yup! Sure! Oh, yeah! WOW!

Thanks again for being a gentleman, Larry!

Best always,
Bruce

richtom

Larry and Bruce are true gentlemen. We can all learn from their example here.
Thanks, guys. Really. Thank you.

Tootsall

Alll righteeeoo....CUE THE MUSIC! Let's go with the Blues Brothers' "RESPECT"!

Seriously... that's what it's all about folks, RESPECT. We're all different, we have different cultures, countries, political parties, horns, skill levels, family situations, economic situations, personal "favs", ages, health situations. But I hope we agree that we're all here to listen, debate, and LEARN about TRUMPET.

RESPECT....YEAH!

When in doubt, clarify first, shoot second...not t'uther way 'round.

crazyhorns

I emailed the Marcinkiewicz co. regarding the knock-offs on ebay. They were already aware of the situation. The makers of these things are in Germany somewhere. Seems that this is the first time the pieces have shown up in the states.... I'll bet Bobby Shew, Chuck findley, Allen Vizzutti are pissed. Not to mention Joe and everyone else at Marcinkiewicz.

Larry Gianni

Steve,

chuck and bobby knew nothing about this.

bobby is a little upset but Chuck really doesn't give a **** . Joe hasn't paid him his $ 1.00 a mouthpiece he was supposed to get for the past 12 years. I wonder how much that would have been, plus Chuck never really played the piece Joe M. made for him. Copy of Reeves 43/ ESs/ 26 throat and 69 backbore. Not really chucks still to deal with things he can't control. Bobby may get Yamaha lawyers into it.

Larry

Joe M's silent partner when he was in LA was Herb Alpert. If Herb is still involved in the operation, then A and M has the money to fit this if it's worth it to herb.

richtom

This is what I meant by cheap knock-offs from overseas. This mouthpieces looks like a cross between a Stork, Marcinkiewicz, Wick, and a little bit of a Haeffner.
The problem lies in who has a trademark on what and is it registered with US Customs. If no trademark or copyright documentation is on file with Customs, a knock-off can come in legally.
Customs-wise, because it "sort of" looks like a Marcinkiewicz and yet we all see other designs in it too, this would be a tough one to sort out and goes into what we call a gray area. There would be lawyers involved here and believe me, Customs has some very good ones working for them.

gus

Guys,

Keep it simple ( as most of the things in this bloody world ).
I am a Lawyer ( not a trademark one ) and could give
a few guides - Larry explained the things better than a
Lawyer, but I would give a simpler one. The first thing
I have to say is that no right is protected unless is registered.
This goes for patents, composition, books or whatever.
Second you can not use any person's name or image without
consent. I think that it is more suitable a legal action based on the
second premise than the first one.

With respect to trumpets and mouthpieces the issue is tricky.
I think that it is near impossible to patent a trumpet because
any single trumpet is more or less a copy of a design from the
18 th century. I think that same could be said about mpc. I know
that there are some mpc. patents around but you have to
demonstrate the U.S. Patent Office that your invention is unique
and a bunch of things rather difficult in an object used since the
Roman Empire as the mouthpiece.

Even though I think that the Marcinkiewitz, Monettes and GR are good products I don't think really that they really "invented" anything, so the
protection of a patent would not be available to this products. Anyway
there is protection to their names. In Europe probably they would
receive an additional protection due to consumer acts that ban any
product that would mislead the consumer about the identity or
quality of the product.

There are a lot of questions on this issue but I would like to keep
it simple.

Gus

Larry Gianni

Gus esq. ,

Great post – thanks for the info (and thanks for the pat on the back about my interpretation of patents – I used to watch “Matlock “a lot )

Wow, an Italian Lawyer

You summations to the jury must go on for ever, not matter what the legal issue

“But your honor, this parking ticket is a gross violation of my clients constitutionally guaranteed civil rights and I need time to address the jury, may I proceed? – The sun is about to come up – again “

I hope your laughing

Back to the Law:

I was just talking about copyright infringement with the owner of the US Distribution Company for the Stomvi Line , based here in Los Angeles just last night over dinner.
We were talking about a copyright infringement by a US Manufacturer that has put out a piccolo trumpet with a detachable screw-bell design just like the Stomvi Master Picc ( the one Maurice Andre plays ) which has a International/European patent on it’s unique design. Stomvi’s legal console in Stomvi headquarters in Spain, started the usual “ cease and desist “ letters but if that fails, they will have decided not pursue the matter thru the courts , even thou the design has International/European copyright protection on it because of the cost of enforcing it legally on an international level.

The profit margin of a Joe M. line of mouthpieces would not be worth the legal battles to stop “the knock” , would it . Is this what the Geman counterfeiter bank on? Would it be a custom’s issue to stop it import in the US

Any thoughts?

Comparisons:

Stomvi sells about 2900 - 3100 instruments a year internationally
Bach, in trumpet alone, distributes 14,000 units
Schilke is estimated to distribute 1000 – 1200 annually
Calicchio crank out 100 – 150 a year
Scodwell trumpets puts out a whopping 50 trumpets a year

Larry

PS: Bill TM for your answer , not me please. I'll send you a excellent " bottle of the grape " to have with your next plate of Veal Calamari.

I should give you Dave Triggs phone # ( he plays lead for Natalie Cole ), his wife is Italian born and raised ( about 10 years in the states ) and when I call and ask for Dave, it will take at least 1/2 hrs to get the phone out of her hands and into Dave's . He once has a $ 4000 phone bill , all calls to Calabria, Italy . She got lonely when he was on the road. WOW !!!!!