matthewharris_065

Just go and buy a Monette Octave-eye-zer.LOL

No, really though, no mouthpiece is going to make you play higher. Now when you get you're range up there and start becoming more "serious" music(not saying you're noy now cause I don't know you) try out a few mouthpieces. They won't increase your range(excluding double cups) but some are made for playing in the stratosphere and make the notes clearer, more audible, etc.

Try looking online for some Range Methods. I found the Cat Anderson Method from Google for free online and it's been working great!!!!

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screamingmorris

"You've only been wearing those shoes for 2 years. That's not long enough to know whether they really fit you."

Oy...



You have instantly diagnosed faults in the student's playing even though you have never seen and heard him play.

"Leroy Smith wore size 12 shoes and he did very well,
so you should be able to do well wearing size 12 shoes, too."

Oy...

Show us how the poster's embouchure type, teeth, jaw, etc. are exactly the same size and shape as those of Bud Herseth.

If Bach 7C mouthpieces vary so greatly in size,
then why are you telling the poster to continue using a mouthpiece when you really have no idea how big or small it is?
You might be telling him that he should continue using a Bach 7C that is as big as a Bach 1C.
Should a beginning student be using a Bach 1C?

Playing a Yamaha 11 or a Schilke 14 or a Holton 7C is not a "crutch".
Those are standard beginners' mouthpieces that are also used by professionals.
They are not "cheater" mouthpieces.

Just as finding a pair of shoes that fit better is not a "crutch".

CHAMP

here we go again...a bunch of guys who actually know what they're talking about and one guy who can read the descriptions in mouthpiece manuals....keep screaming guy

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POW!!!

screamingmorris

I have personally played every mouthpiece I mentioned plus many, many more.
So I was speaking from personal experience.

For example, from personal experience I know the difference between the original Holton 7C (outside was shaped like a Conn 4) and the Bach 7C:
The Holton 7C was slightly shallower with a slightly more "V" shaped cup than the Bach 7C.
I really liked it as an all-purpose mouthpiece, very similar to the slightly larger diameter Conn 4.

The Schilke 14B takes that a step farther with even more of a "V" shaped cup.
I personally cannot play it because my lower lip protrudes into the cup much more than most players' lips and I start to bottom out on it slightly on high notes. But I love the tone I got with that mouthpiece.

The Yamaha 11 has a much more comfortable rim than the Bach 7C and I found it to be easier to play.
The deep version 11E4 is my cornet mouthpiece.

Upper register tends to be easier on the Bach 7 (no letter) than on a Bach 7C because of the "Alpha angle" aka "undercut" (how sharp the drop-off is from rim into cup). Because the Bach 7 (no letter) is more "V" shaped cup it is easier to play the high notes, even though the Bach 7 (no letter) is a little bit deeper than the Bach 7C. Because a deep "V" shaped cup will feel shallower near the rim than a medium-depth "U" shaped cup.
So with a Bach 7C I can only play up to a High C, while with a Bach 7 (no letter) I can play up to the F or G above that.

Many people do very well with a Bach 7C.
But that does not mean that every student should have a Bach 7C shoved down his throat, especially when the student has said that he is having trouble with it.
Why on earth should every student have a Bach 7C shoved down his throat (regardless of his lips and teeth and jaw) when there is such a wide selection of very good beginners' mouthpieces out there?

linkmaster03

Thank you very much, everybody! :)

Pedal C

Ok, so I can’t get the Multi-qoute thing to work, so I apologize if this is cumbersome…I’ll try to be clear.

MORRIS - "You've only been wearing those shoes for 2 years. That's not long enough to know whether they really fit you."

Oy...

ME (JASON) – In my opinion, this is not a valid analogy for this situation. A better one would be baseball bats. Would you be helping a little league kid by giving him a catalogue from every major bat maker and saying, “Ok, now pick the weight, length, barrel shape, handle shape and barrel size…oh, and do you want that cupped or not?” A little league kid 1 – wouldn’t know 2 – there is about a 95% chance that they aren't good enough and consistent enough for any of that to matter. All they need is a bat that isn’t way too heavy or way light, just like a beginner trumpet student needs a mouthpiece neither too big or two small. A 7C fits this situation nicely.



MORRIS - You have instantly diagnosed faults in the student's playing even though you have never seen and heard him play.

JASON – No, I have not. Read my post again and note the use of words like “probably” and “may not be.” Those are not just for show. I just pointed out that he was still developing and, since the upper register isn't happening, he PROBABLY is still developing good breathing and a stable embouchure. I never tried to diagnose any specific problems,




MORRIS - "Leroy Smith wore size 12 shoes and he did very well,
so you should be able to do well wearing size 12 shoes, too."

Oy...

Show us how the poster's embouchure type, teeth, jaw, etc. are exactly the same size and shape as those of Bud Herseth.

JASON – The point of mentioning Bud Herseth is only to show that there is nothing inherently wrong with a 7C. This is why (if you care to re-read my post) I said that I was referencing the “relative quality” of the 7C. It is not a “bad” mouthpiece. I also said that it may not be ideal down the road. My point is that it is too early to tell if the student does not have a fundamentally sound approach to the trumpet (which is suggested to me by the lack of upper register.)




MORRIS - If Bach 7C mouthpieces vary so greatly in size,
then why are you telling the poster to continue using a mouthpiece when you really have no idea how big or small it is?
You might be telling him that he should continue using a Bach 7C that is as big as a Bach 1C.
Should a beginning student be using a Bach 1C?

JASON – I mentioned the inconsistency of Bach mouthpieces just to point out that it’s questionable to generalize about all sorts of mouthpieces based on that Kanstul Comparator. Who knows what particular 7C or 3C they scanned. But I wasn’t particularly clear. Sorry. As for a beginner playing on a 1C. No, I do not recommend that, but I also doubt he has one like mine. Do I know this for sure? No, but I’m will to play the odds here. Most newer 7C’s are more or less the same size, in my experience. Identical…no.



MORRIS - Playing a Yamaha 11 or a Schilke 14 or a Holton 7C is not a "crutch".
Those are standard beginners' mouthpieces that are also used by professionals.
They are not "cheater" mouthpieces.

Just as finding a pair of shoes that fit better is not a "crutch".

JASON – Please read what I wrote. I mentioned no specific mouthpieces. I said that using a “smaller” or “shallower” mouthpiece was not in this student’s best interest. For a player with a solid foundation, finding a mouthpiece that works is important. A mouthpiece becomes a “crutch” when a player lacks the proper fundamentals to play in the upper register and uses an excessively small or shallow mouthpiece to try to squeeze those notes out. I simply warned against that. Yamaha 11, Schilke 14 and Holton 7C are all fine beginner mouthpiece.

The point of my original post is this thread is this:

A trumpet player needs to have a certain level of proficiency in order to make an intelligent determination about whether a mouthpiece is working or not. In my opinion, a 7th grade student who has trouble playing above the staff hasn’t gotten to that level (No offence to the original poster…we were all beginners once too!).

I don’t normally respond directly to posts I don’t personally agree with. We can all have our opinions. But I believe that advising this student to start looking for new mouthpiece to cure his problems is detrimental.

Jason.

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"The oboe's A is to make sure we still play it 1 and 2" - Bud Herseth

"One way or another, every patient stops bleeding." - Scrubs

rowuk

I agree with Morris.
You do not have to be a seasoned pro to figure out if a mouthpiece is comfortable or not! We are all in agreement that the mouthpiece will not magically create high or low notes. Most of my students after 2 or 3 years of playing get switched to "other" mouthpieces. Why? Because by then they have developed a strong enough embouchure to support a bigger mp, or have so much range that we can go after optimizing that.
I think it is easy to become too "opinionated" on the advantage or disadvantage of switching mouthpieces. This only leads to unnecessary arguement. I use 4 different mouthpiece sizes depending on what I am playing. The switch has never been difficult and the advantages very great. None of my students has ever STRUGGLED with a mouthpiece change-EVER!

If linkmaster wants to try something new out, he/she justs needs to know that the miracle is COMFORT and not instant range or tone. The Yamaha or Schilke recommendations above seem sound to me! They are readily available and not too expensive! More comfort will generally lead to more practicing! A 7C sized mouthpiece is always a good starting point. Rim shape and blow are as individual as size and sometimes a great deal of flexibility can be won by using a different rim shape!

This is a decision that can only be made by playing, preferably with your teachers ears on the receiving end of the experiment!

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Pedal C

Looking for comfort is a little different that looking for better range...there's NO reason to keep playing a mouthpiece that feels bad!

Changing mouthpieces is no big deal for someone with a stable embouchure (I use different ones for different things too), but if you don't have that stability, I think it's unlikely to have too much effect on range (which was the original question), unless the current mouthpiece is really bizzare.

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"The oboe's A is to make sure we still play it 1 and 2" - Bud Herseth

"One way or another, every patient stops bleeding." - Scrubs

flugelgirl

I really think the best route to figure this type of question out as a young student is with the help of a private teacher. That way, you've got someone to help you learn to build a practice regimen, as well as to help you choose your equipment!

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Reeves V Raptor
Yamaha 8335RGM
50's Calicchio
Marcienkewicz Rembrandt flugel
Schilke P5-4
French Besson Classic C
Weril Regium Eb/D

screamingmorris

Bach 7C is the only "beginner's" mouthpiece that is that deep.
All other companies' beginner's mouthpieces are slightly shallower.
What are the chances that Bach is right and all of the other companies in the world are wrong?