V-Cup Mouthpiece Qualities

BPinard · 07-17-2005, 10:11 PM

I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of what the tonal qualities of v-cup mouthpieces are. I've heard that they're different, I'm just interested in what way.

mike ansberry · 07-17-2005, 10:42 PM

I have two experiences with v cups. The first probably doesn't count, but all the flugel horn mouthpieces I've seen are v cup. The second is a friend of mine, Jim Manley, is a player in St. Louis. Reeves made him a mouthpiece not too long ago. He said it is the smallest, shallowest mouthpiece he's ever made. (Jim is a highnote specialist) Jim found that it gave him too bright of a sound on jazz gigs, so he had Reeves make him one with a v cup. It is much more mellow.

camelbrass · 07-18-2005, 03:09 AM

My experience pretty much mirrors Mike's comment from Jim Manley.

In fact a guy I play a lot with (musicmatters) uses a GR3MX and I use a GR 3HC* -cup volumes are almost identical but cup shapes are quite different, the HC* being V shaped and the MX bowl shaped. We cross tested them in my Bach 37 and his Schilke B1. The sound was quite different and the difference was consistent across the two trumpets.

The V shaped mouthpiece was much sweeter sounding than the bowl shaped one....not better or worse just more lyrical. The MX had a more solid sound. We both remarked that the 3HC* would make a fantastic soloists piece because of the sound (by the way I use it for everything..solo and section and jazz and big band and....)

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Trevor

Cornet1 · 07-18-2005, 04:49 AM

As you know the modern family of brass instruments were developed from the' natural trumpet' on the one hand, and what could be called the 'natural horn' on the other.

The natural trumpet gave the best results with a cup mpc as this gave the best brightness and good intonation, the sound wave being fed back to the lips by the closeness of the cup bottom. The horn required a long conical mpc with straight sides to get a mellow and soft tone, although high range and intonation were difficult since there was effectively no bottom to give feed back.

Modern brass instruments need qualities from both camps, to greater or lesser degree. Thus, modern mpc's usually combine features of both types with one or the other being predominant.

Most current 'V' mpcs have a 'recurved' profile more like a sine wave. The best place to see this is on the excellent 'GR Technologies' site where the effects of the sections of profile are disscussed.

Tom_MacNiven · 07-18-2005, 03:37 PM

Someone told me once that Clark Terry used a V shaped cup in his tpt mpce. I've no idea if this is true or not but from what you're saying it would certainly account for his beautifully lyrical sound and style.

vlstpt · 10-01-2005, 01:58 AM

I use a Bach 5V and it has a mellow (not bright) sound, more like Cornet or Flug sound. Nice for ballads. It has 20 TRoat and a #25 BB. I love the sound.

wiseone2 · 10-01-2005, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_MacNiven

Someone told me once that Clark Terry used a V shaped cup in his tpt mpce. I've no idea if this is true or not but from what you're saying it would certainly account for his beautifully lyrical sound and style.

Nope.
Listen to Clark as he scats or sings WITHOUT the trumpet.
Smooth and lyrical. Style is determined by the heart, not the mouthpiece.
Wilmer

Tom_MacNiven · 10-01-2005, 12:55 PM

Yes you're absolutely right Mr Wise I should perhaps have used different words, I'm simply saying that on a purely technical level, not musical or emotional.

Thanks for clarifying what I thought I was saying but wasn't.

MrLT · 10-03-2005, 10:09 AM

This is an interesting thread - and timely for me. I'm thinking of trying a V cup mpc to get a more lyrical and dark tone - mostly for jazz solo work. I currently play a bach 1 1/2 C - does anyone know of a V cup mpc with equivalent cup diameter (17 mm/0.67") and similar or deeper cup depth?

Rick Chartrand · 10-27-2005, 01:53 AM

My main mouthpiece is a Heim #2 (10c) which is an incredible V-Cup mouthpiece. For me the V-Cup just sings in the mid and upper regesters, and the low regesters are dark and personal. The control and extended range on my mouthpiece is incredible and it is great for Jazz and ballads

If you wanna hear what a V-Cup can do listen to any Miles Davis, and you'll know! On a pro gig I wouldnt play anything but a V-Cup

Ive been playing my Heim since the beginning of this year and it has done wonders for my ongoing development in endurance! When I got the Heim it gave me easily 4 hours of endurance, and now I am up to 5!

Below is a link to the mouthpiece I own along with a review I wrote on it.

http://www.wwbw.com/Holton-Heim-Seri...e-i63592.music

07-17-2005, 10:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
BPinard Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Setauket, NY Posts: 137	V-Cup Mouthpiece Qualities I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of what the tonal qualities of v-cup mouthpieces are. I've heard that they're different, I'm just interested in what way. __________________ [tpt: Yamaha Xeno Custom] [mpc: Monette B6]

07-17-2005, 10:42 PM	#2 (permalink)
mike ansberry Piano User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Clarksville, Tennessee, USA Posts: 319	I have two experiences with v cups. The first probably doesn't count, but all the flugel horn mouthpieces I've seen are v cup. The second is a friend of mine, Jim Manley, is a player in St. Louis. Reeves made him a mouthpiece not too long ago. He said it is the smallest, shallowest mouthpiece he's ever made. (Jim is a highnote specialist) Jim found that it gave him too bright of a sound on jazz gigs, so he had Reeves make him one with a v cup. It is much more mellow. __________________ "Music is a fire in your belly that has to come out of your mouth, so you'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt" (paraphrase of Bleeding Gums Murphy)

07-18-2005, 03:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tom_MacNiven Pianissimo User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Posts: 50	Someone told me once that Clark Terry used a V shaped cup in his tpt mpce. I've no idea if this is true or not but from what you're saying it would certainly account for his beautifully lyrical sound and style. __________________ Eclipse Artist Eclipse LS Eclipse XLR Bach Strad Flugel Model 183 - Eclipse Red bell Flugel coming soon www.eclipsetrumpets.com The Scottish National Jazz Orchestra - www.snjo.co.uk

10-01-2005, 01:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
vlstpt New Friend Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Suffolk County NY USA Posts: 18	"V" cup TPT MPC I use a Bach 5V and it has a mellow (not bright) sound, more like Cornet or Flug sound. Nice for ballads. It has 20 TRoat and a #25 BB. I love the sound. __________________ VLS Psalm 150:3 John 3:16 Church Musician Port Jeff. Station, NY,USA LA Benge Trumpet ML bore Bach 3C & Bach 5V mpcs & others.

10-01-2005, 12:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tom_MacNiven Pianissimo User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Posts: 50	Yes you're absolutely right Mr Wise I should perhaps have used different words, I'm simply saying that on a purely technical level, not musical or emotional. Thanks for clarifying what I thought I was saying but wasn't. __________________ Eclipse Artist Eclipse LS Eclipse XLR Bach Strad Flugel Model 183 - Eclipse Red bell Flugel coming soon www.eclipsetrumpets.com The Scottish National Jazz Orchestra - www.snjo.co.uk

07-18-2005, 03:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
camelbrass Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 798	My experience pretty much mirrors Mike's comment from Jim Manley. In fact a guy I play a lot with (musicmatters) uses a GR3MX and I use a GR 3HC* -cup volumes are almost identical but cup shapes are quite different, the HC* being V shaped and the MX bowl shaped. We cross tested them in my Bach 37 and his Schilke B1. The sound was quite different and the difference was consistent across the two trumpets. The V shaped mouthpiece was much sweeter sounding than the bowl shaped one....not better or worse just more lyrical. The MX had a more solid sound. We both remarked that the 3HC* would make a fantastic soloists piece because of the sound (by the way I use it for everything..solo and section and jazz and big band and....) Hope this helps. Regards, Trevor

07-18-2005, 04:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Cornet1 Pianissimo User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Essex, England Posts: 146	As you know the modern family of brass instruments were developed from the' natural trumpet' on the one hand, and what could be called the 'natural horn' on the other. The natural trumpet gave the best results with a cup mpc as this gave the best brightness and good intonation, the sound wave being fed back to the lips by the closeness of the cup bottom. The horn required a long conical mpc with straight sides to get a mellow and soft tone, although high range and intonation were difficult since there was effectively no bottom to give feed back. Modern brass instruments need qualities from both camps, to greater or lesser degree. Thus, modern mpc's usually combine features of both types with one or the other being predominant. Most current 'V' mpcs have a 'recurved' profile more like a sine wave. The best place to see this is on the excellent 'GR Technologies' site where the effects of the sections of profile are disscussed.

10-03-2005, 10:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
MrLT Pianissimo User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 78	This is an interesting thread - and timely for me. I'm thinking of trying a V cup mpc to get a more lyrical and dark tone - mostly for jazz solo work. I currently play a bach 1 1/2 C - does anyone know of a V cup mpc with equivalent cup diameter (17 mm/0.67") and similar or deeper cup depth? __________________ "I was minding my own business when something says to me, "you ought to blow trumpet." I have just been trying ever since." - Miles Davis Eclipse LR/Warburton 3MD Olds Custom/Warburton 3M Eclipse Red Flugel/Bach 1 1/2C B&H "78" cornet/ DW2B

10-27-2005, 01:53 AM	#10 (permalink)
Rick Chartrand Piano User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 391	My main mouthpiece is a Heim #2 (10c) which is an incredible V-Cup mouthpiece. For me the V-Cup just sings in the mid and upper regesters, and the low regesters are dark and personal. The control and extended range on my mouthpiece is incredible and it is great for Jazz and ballads If you wanna hear what a V-Cup can do listen to any Miles Davis, and you'll know! On a pro gig I wouldnt play anything but a V-Cup Ive been playing my Heim since the beginning of this year and it has done wonders for my ongoing development in endurance! When I got the Heim it gave me easily 4 hours of endurance, and now I am up to 5! Below is a link to the mouthpiece I own along with a review I wrote on it. http://www.wwbw.com/Holton-Heim-Seri...e-i63592.music __________________ Those who are jealous of me have no sucess; Those who are my equal may be kindred. mmccourt and schilke b6 may consume my leavings.

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