What mouthpieces do "minor" companies model from?

soontir2432 · 01-23-2005, 10:58 AM

Many companies mainly specialize in instruments and their mouthpiece lines are just copied from other companies (I presume Bach) and I was wondering what they were.

I have a few pieces from Benge and Blessing that I own and I wonder where they came from. Then there are also other manufactures that we don't hear a lot about like Conn mouthpieces (which is sold by MPCExpress exclusively on eBay it seems), Holton and various other manufacturers.

Does anyone know what they are model/s after? If it is Bach, then which era are they from?

MUSICandCHARACTER · 01-23-2005, 05:08 PM

The FAXX and Kelly mouthpieces are copies of Mt. Vernon era Bachs. I would guess Blessing and any generic mouthpiece is a copy of a modern Bach (in size, not that much different than Mt. Vernons).

Selmer-Bach has really done the trumpet world a disservice. The Bach mouthpieces are not produced at the published specs. So what Bach says they are and what the measure at are two different things. (see the mpc chart in my signature).

So when a company says that make a Bach size mouthpiece, is it as measured or relative to the specs?

Jim

soontir2432 · 01-23-2005, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUSICandCHARACTER

The FAXX and Kelly mouthpieces are copies of Mt. Vernon era Bachs. I would guess Blessing and any generic mouthpiece is a copy of a modern Bach (in size, not that much different than Mt. Vernons). Jim

I assume the Mt. Vernon are more closer to the specs that Bach is posting than the new ones so, I guess it was a good idea to give my friend a Blessing then a Fax(X).

(this smilie needs to smile!) As he had use a Revere piece before.

MUSICandCHARACTER · 01-24-2005, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soontir2432

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUSICandCHARACTER

The FAXX and Kelly mouthpieces are copies of Mt. Vernon era Bachs. I would guess Blessing and any generic mouthpiece is a copy of a modern Bach (in size, not that much different than Mt. Vernons). Jim

I assume the Mt. Vernon are more closer to the specs that Bach is posting than the new ones so, I guess it was a good idea to give my friend a Blessing then a Fax(X).

(this smilie needs to smile!) As he had use a Revere piece before.

Nope -- the Mt. Vernons varied widely. The new ones are not made to the published specs. That is the frustrating part. Why publish specs and then not make your mouthpieces to the specs? It is crazy.

Jim

soontir2432 · 01-24-2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUSICandCHARACTER

Nope -- the Mt. Vernons varied widely. The new ones are not made to the published specs. That is the frustrating part. Why publish specs and then not make your mouthpieces to the specs? It is crazy.

Jim

So for all I know, my friend may have a completely different mouthpiece. Gosh, this is crazy.

MUSICandCHARACTER · 01-24-2005, 12:12 AM

Yes it is!

See the article on the Schilke Loyalist website:

http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/B...c%20chart.html

Jim

Robert Rowe · 01-24-2005, 11:59 AM

This situation is terrible ... and in view of all these discrepancies, I would hope the manufacturers could collectively come-up with a meaningful system of measurements and nomenclature for us, the consumers. For the most part, other than metric vs SAE, the rest of the known world has adopted systems of sizing and measurements that endeavor to aid the consumer. Imagine if tire makers all had their own separate sets of sizes.
Mouthpiece manufacturers often have special and unique cup and rim profiles, but there should be some agreement as to relative sizing. Did you ever try to compare a Rudy Much to an Al Cass mouthpiece? LOL.
Thanks, a heck-of-a-lot, folks!
I posted a similar complaint on another forum, and I got some moronic responses from those that apparently have nothing better to do than memorize mouthpiece specifications ... "mouthpiece Geeks!" ... (Get a life!!!). Their "Day Jobs" are probably things like Actuarians, Statisticians, Accountants, and that ilk ... what great excitement!!

Oh, wellll ... I think I need a drink ....

Robert Rowe

Tootsall · 01-24-2005, 12:04 PM

Robert, you need to read through the GR mouthpieces website http://www.grmouthpieces.com as well as check out the Kanstul mouthpiece comparator.

Robert Rowe · 01-24-2005, 10:01 PM

OK, Ed .. but,... Good Grief! Another "Rubic's Cube", or ersatz compendium of "factual data" (scientific & otherwise).
I'm inclined to comment, "Yada, yada, yada..." but I won't, because I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Before this is over, I'll probably be contemplating the "Alpha Angle" of my sphincter muscles.

...until I read all this (I don't have the time right now, but I do have the inclination)....
..."time will tell ...."

Robert Rowe

Tootsall · 01-24-2005, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Rowe

Before this is over, I'll probably be contemplating the "Alpha Angle" of my sphincter muscles.Robert Rowe

And that is exactly why (ahem) terds are tapered... so your spincter doesn't shut with a clang! It's all in the alpha angle.

In some seriousness, however... GR HAS listed their mouthpieces by precise dimensions including such ersatz information as cup volume, inner rim diameter and other quantifiable measurements. And the folks at Kanstul have also provided a means (although it seems to be less than perfectly precise...likely due to some internet limitations) of comparing different mouthpieces with the old standby, Bach.

( a satisfied user of GR/Sparx mouthpieces )

01-23-2005, 10:58 AM	#1 (permalink)
soontir2432 Pianissimo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Queens, New York, USA Posts: 52	What mouthpieces do "minor" companies model from? Many companies mainly specialize in instruments and their mouthpiece lines are just copied from other companies (I presume Bach) and I was wondering what they were. I have a few pieces from Benge and Blessing that I own and I wonder where they came from. Then there are also other manufactures that we don't hear a lot about like Conn mouthpieces (which is sold by MPCExpress exclusively on eBay it seems), Holton and various other manufacturers. Does anyone know what they are model/s after? If it is Bach, then which era are they from? __________________ Cyaround, Jason "The Galaxy is mine." 1962 Holton Galaxy Trumpet 1963 Holton Galaxy Cornet

01-23-2005, 05:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
MUSICandCHARACTER Forte User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newburgh, Indiana Posts: 1,165	The FAXX and Kelly mouthpieces are copies of Mt. Vernon era Bachs. I would guess Blessing and any generic mouthpiece is a copy of a modern Bach (in size, not that much different than Mt. Vernons). Selmer-Bach has really done the trumpet world a disservice. The Bach mouthpieces are not produced at the published specs. So what Bach says they are and what the measure at are two different things. (see the mpc chart in my signature). So when a company says that make a Bach size mouthpiece, is it as measured or relative to the specs? Jim __________________ Dr. Jim Fox Licensed Mental Health Therapist Mouthpiece chart: www.ibowtie.com/tmptmpccharts.html

01-24-2005, 12:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
MUSICandCHARACTER Forte User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newburgh, Indiana Posts: 1,165	Yes it is! See the article on the Schilke Loyalist website: http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/B...c%20chart.html Jim __________________ Dr. Jim Fox Licensed Mental Health Therapist Mouthpiece chart: www.ibowtie.com/tmptmpccharts.html

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01-24-2005, 11:59 AM	#7 (permalink)
Robert Rowe Piano User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 498	This situation is terrible ... and in view of all these discrepancies, I would hope the manufacturers could collectively come-up with a meaningful system of measurements and nomenclature for us, the consumers. For the most part, other than metric vs SAE, the rest of the known world has adopted systems of sizing and measurements that endeavor to aid the consumer. Imagine if tire makers all had their own separate sets of sizes. Mouthpiece manufacturers often have special and unique cup and rim profiles, but there should be some agreement as to relative sizing. Did you ever try to compare a Rudy Much to an Al Cass mouthpiece? LOL. Thanks, a heck-of-a-lot, folks! I posted a similar complaint on another forum, and I got some moronic responses from those that apparently have nothing better to do than memorize mouthpiece specifications ... "mouthpiece Geeks!" ... (Get a life!!!). Their "Day Jobs" are probably things like Actuarians, Statisticians, Accountants, and that ilk ... what great excitement!! Oh, wellll ... I think I need a drink .... Robert Rowe

01-24-2005, 12:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tootsall Fortissimo User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Yee HAW! Posts: 4,641	Robert, you need to read through the GR mouthpieces website http://www.grmouthpieces.com as well as check out the Kanstul mouthpiece comparator.

01-24-2005, 10:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
Robert Rowe Piano User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 498	OK, Ed .. but,... Good Grief! Another "Rubic's Cube", or ersatz compendium of "factual data" (scientific & otherwise). I'm inclined to comment, "Yada, yada, yada..." but I won't, because I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Before this is over, I'll probably be contemplating the "Alpha Angle" of my sphincter muscles. ...until I read all this (I don't have the time right now, but I do have the inclination).... ..."time will tell ...." Robert Rowe

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