Experiences/Thoughts on Iraq - Page 2

trickg · 07-29-2005, 08:53 PM

Manny, also something to think about regarding the birth of our country is that there were plenty of folks that didn't think sticking with Mother England and the status quo was such a bad idea, and didn't want independence at all.

What we are doing in Iraq, as unpopular as it may be to some, I believe is for the greater good of the world in the long run - we can't look at this in terms of weeks or months, we need to look at it in terms of decades and try to make a projection of the effects of our actions, should they succeed, (and I believe they will) in 40 or 50 years.

Manny Laureano · 07-30-2005, 02:14 AM

Yeah, Patrick, when I was in High School, I remember that public opinion ran in thirds: One third wanted independence from England, one third didn't care, and the final group, you guessed it, didn't want independence. I don't know where those figures come from but I've heard all my life from different sources.

So the minority and the "whatever" crowd won out. One ironic bit that I learned later on in life: if we'd stayed an English colony, we would have remained in charge of the vast territory that was the South. All that cotton and other goods... on the backs of slaves... might have made them less likely to give up ownership. Which means that a civil war of some sort may still have occurred when the King would have announced "okay, no more slaves! You'll have to let them go or pay them! Oh, and by the way.. I'm raising taxes again to make up for the deficit that's going to happen when the slaves go free. Have a nice day!"

How would the reigning king have dealt with that, I wonder?

ML

Manny Laureano · 07-30-2005, 02:15 AM

Shoot! Sorry, that was hijacking! Maybe I'll pose that question elsewhere.

Sorry,
ML

trumpjosh · 07-30-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Laureano

Yeah, Patrick, when I was in High School, I remember that public opinion ran in thirds: One third wanted independence from England, one third didn't care, and the final group, you guessed it, didn't want independence.

Manny -

I knew you were old, but I had no idea...

- Josh

Manny Laureano · 07-30-2005, 05:34 PM

You suck!

That was the funniest thing I think I have read all week, at least. I wish you could have heard me... i'm still laughing. And today I today, I really needed to laugh, so, thanks.

But you still suck.

ML

camelbrass · 07-31-2005, 08:26 AM

In a lot of ways evolution may be the answer but it'll take a long time and I know this will sound horrible but drawing the parallel with US independence is not that far removed from the fact. We've all had 200 years to get used to the fact that even in a small way we can influence our own fortunes by voting. We see democracy as both a privilige and a right.

Ultimately the Arab culture still relies heavily on being told how to act, what to do, how to behave be it by an emir, a sheikh or a mullah regardless of an individual's wealth or lack of it. When they are threatened they immediately look towards tribal lines (which are the same as religious lines) and find comfort in that. We come from cultures that don't do that anymore and haven't done for hundreds of years. At this stage democracy is an unproven experiment and the tribe offers the solution..regardless of what the individual may want. This of course leaves a whole nation open to all sorts of influences from religious fanatics to warlords and of course the ever present Mr bin Laden.

Just my thoughts,

Regards,

Trevor

PS Manny, personally I'm glad you kicked the English out, otherwise I wouldn't be an Aussie. I may, however, have been an American if you were still taking convicts in the 1830s...did you have any English convicts in your high school?

trumpjosh · 07-31-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Laureano

But you still suck.

So do the Twins.

The "other" Manny is starting to give me an ulcer though.

Sorry to hijack the thread, everyone. I'll be good from now on.

rjzeller · 07-31-2005, 03:32 PM

Quote:

So do the Twins.

The "other" Manny is starting to give me an ulcer though.

Ouch! Sadly, right now you appear to be right. With Hunter out, maybe we'll be taking at other Manny off your hands. We'll know in about 30 minutes....

trumpjosh · 08-01-2005, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjzeller

With Hunter out, maybe we'll be taking at other Manny off your hands. We'll know in about 30 minutes....

So much for wishful thinking. I do feel for you though. I've always respected Hunter's game. Good luck fighting for the Wild Card... beat the Yankees, please!

rjzeller · 08-01-2005, 01:58 AM

How can we beat the Yankees out when your team keeps sweeping ours? Ugh....bases loaded three times, zero hits. I think I've got an ulcer....

07-29-2005, 08:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
trickg Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland Posts: 2,054	Manny, also something to think about regarding the birth of our country is that there were plenty of folks that didn't think sticking with Mother England and the status quo was such a bad idea, and didn't want independence at all. What we are doing in Iraq, as unpopular as it may be to some, I believe is for the greater good of the world in the long run - we can't look at this in terms of weeks or months, we need to look at it in terms of decades and try to make a projection of the effects of our actions, should they succeed, (and I believe they will) in 40 or 50 years. __________________ Patrick Gleason email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com "What we do in life echoes in eternity" "At my signal, unleash hell." - Maximus Decimus Meridius

08-01-2005, 01:58 AM	#20 (permalink)
rjzeller Forte User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Rochester, MN Posts: 1,212	How can we beat the Yankees out when your team keeps sweeping ours? Ugh....bases loaded three times, zero hits. I think I've got an ulcer.... __________________ There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who do not.

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07-30-2005, 02:14 AM	#12 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	Yeah, Patrick, when I was in High School, I remember that public opinion ran in thirds: One third wanted independence from England, one third didn't care, and the final group, you guessed it, didn't want independence. I don't know where those figures come from but I've heard all my life from different sources. So the minority and the "whatever" crowd won out. One ironic bit that I learned later on in life: if we'd stayed an English colony, we would have remained in charge of the vast territory that was the South. All that cotton and other goods... on the backs of slaves... might have made them less likely to give up ownership. Which means that a civil war of some sort may still have occurred when the King would have announced "okay, no more slaves! You'll have to let them go or pay them! Oh, and by the way.. I'm raising taxes again to make up for the deficit that's going to happen when the slaves go free. Have a nice day!" How would the reigning king have dealt with that, I wonder? ML

07-30-2005, 02:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	Shoot! Sorry, that was hijacking! Maybe I'll pose that question elsewhere. Sorry, ML

07-30-2005, 05:34 PM	#15 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	You suck! That was the funniest thing I think I have read all week, at least. I wish you could have heard me... i'm still laughing. And today I today, I really needed to laugh, so, thanks. But you still suck. ML

07-31-2005, 08:26 AM	#16 (permalink)
camelbrass Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 797	In a lot of ways evolution may be the answer but it'll take a long time and I know this will sound horrible but drawing the parallel with US independence is not that far removed from the fact. We've all had 200 years to get used to the fact that even in a small way we can influence our own fortunes by voting. We see democracy as both a privilige and a right. Ultimately the Arab culture still relies heavily on being told how to act, what to do, how to behave be it by an emir, a sheikh or a mullah regardless of an individual's wealth or lack of it. When they are threatened they immediately look towards tribal lines (which are the same as religious lines) and find comfort in that. We come from cultures that don't do that anymore and haven't done for hundreds of years. At this stage democracy is an unproven experiment and the tribe offers the solution..regardless of what the individual may want. This of course leaves a whole nation open to all sorts of influences from religious fanatics to warlords and of course the ever present Mr bin Laden. Just my thoughts, Regards, Trevor PS Manny, personally I'm glad you kicked the English out, otherwise I wouldn't be an Aussie. I may, however, have been an American if you were still taking convicts in the 1830s...did you have any English convicts in your high school?

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