Gray hair does not equate with no longer vital!!

NickD · 12-28-2007, 10:24 AM

Mild Rant:

Last night I worked with several fine Chicago area musicians. After we played, I had an interesting conversation with two of my favorite musicians. They shall remain nameless.

The conversation really ticked me off, and I just feel compelled to say something, though I don’t expect to change things with this post, but maybe I can get folks to thinking just a bit.

One gentleman is one of the finest trombone players I know, and I know some really good ones (Steve Wiest is family for crying out loud!), so when I say this gentleman is good, this is not hollow hyperbole. Let’s call him the Mr. B. I hadn’t seen him for quite a while. Now, he is 20 years older than I am, but that means nothing to me. It is however germane to the point.

I asked Mr. B if he was still working with a particular society contractor. He told me, “No. I left a couple of years ago. He didn’t need a trombone player. He needed someone to stand up there and hold a trombone and look young.”

I was livid! He was forced out of this guy’s band because he didn’t look like a kid. Now, I know this leader. He’s dying his hair and frantically trying to keep from looking “seasoned.” I actually understand that, sad though it be. Folks who hire bands for society events are not looking for good music or art music. They are looking for something to make their party look cool to their guests. They want to impress people as opposed to enlighten them in any way. So I can see that a leader might fall to the dark side on this issue. However, when a musician of the caliber of Mr. B gets the shaft just because he chooses to not try to hide his seasoned status, well, that ticks me off. This leader has completely fallen into shadows.

Here’s where I see a double standard in society – it’s not just in music, let’s face it. Folks are EXPECTED to be impressed by youth and to expect to find that young musicians are going to bring fresh ideas and new energy to the idioms they work in. I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS! While it isn’t universal that just being a young musician makes one an innovator, many young musicians are incredibly innovative. The history of jazz bears this out.

What bothers me is that the converse is NOT universally accepted. Many folks see a man like my dear friend Mr. B walk into a club and simply wonder “who is this old geezer with the trombone?” Once this “old geezer” starts playing, most will cease to harbor those thoughts, if they have any sense. This old geezer knows more tunes than anyone I know. He never misses a change when he plays jazz – NEVER!!! He has strong high chops and can read fly specks from 100 yards. He is as good a lead trombone player as you’ll find and is one of the finest jazz musicians I know. He has been one of the busiest jingle musicians in the country in his day. He can also play rock music as well as any young kid in any rock band anywhere. He can also sing like a bird!

Where young musicians bring “youthful vigor and innovative ideas” to jazz or music in general, seasoned musicians like Mr. B bring experience, not only in music but in life, to bear on the ideas they bring out in jazz. You can hear this and feel it when they play!

There was another fine musician there – a jazz trumpeter of remarkable skill and knowledge – who is also of the “seasoned” ilk. Upon picking up on the conversation, he commented on the notion that while this was a load of crap, this is the way it is and we simply have to live with it. This is where I disagree.

Musicians like Mr. B and the trumpeter in question (Mr. B2, lets call him) deserve reverence and respect. They DON’T deserve to be shoveled off the band stand just because they have gray hair. There is no need to push guys out to make room for others just because of the “belief in age or some mysterious power of age be it old or young.”

Our society is driven by vanity, to be sure. This is sad. However, it doesn’t have to stay that way. Even if only a few people start thinking differently the power of concepts and ideas can gradually take hold to change things for the better.

One of my favorite movies is “Standing in the Shadow of Motown.” The subject of the movie is the Funk Brothers, the small cadre of musicians who gave life and breath to the Motown acts from Detroit. Most folks have no idea that virtually every Motown act, from Stevie Wonder to the Supremes and only one group of musicians – the Funk Brothers. Many times the acts would come in with tune sketches – a few chords and lyrics written out in scraps of paper. The Funk Brothers would cobble together hit after hit for these acts right on the spot.

Now, the point of this move is that these incredible musicians were used by Barry Gordie and the big name acts in the most ungrateful fashion. These acts would take all of the credit and the money and accolades and the Funk Brothers were left out of the dream. The move producer sets this all right, and it is a must see for this reason.

However, in light of this post, “Standing in the Shadow of Motown” has a secondary impact that I think is too often missed. The whole film is surrounding a reunion concert performance by the funk brothers. They are seasoned gentlemen with gray hair, grandchildren, etc. Well, when they come out onto the stage to play, they sound FANTASTIC – as good as ever – BETTER! These gentlemen can take care of business as well as any kid out there. This secondary impact of this film makes this one of the most touching movies I’ve ever seen.

Yes, youth brings vigor and freshness to music. However, seasoned old age does not bring ugliness and blight! Older musicians can teach us all. Most seasoned professional musicians are open minded to new music. New music need to be open minded to them, as well!

So, the next time you see some gray haired musician walk into a gig, EXPECT some greatness to come out. Odds are, he/she is expecting it from you. This can be a wonderful symbiotic event, and we can make that happen.

Peace.

Nick Drozdoff

ecarroll · 12-28-2007, 10:42 AM

Nick,

Bob Brookmeyer recently told me that he just got an e-mail informing him that he was named Downbeat magazine's trombonist (not composer) of the year. Bob's 77. Perhaps there are a few enlightened ones out there afterall?

Fingers crossed and not considering a hairpiece,
EC

NickD · 12-28-2007, 11:17 AM

Ed,

Yeah to Bob! HE deserves this!

Now, I didn't mean to imply that there are no enlightend folks out there of all ages. I just think we need to be diligent in dealing with this trend in culture.

I thought about dying my hair. MANY of my sidemen/sidewomen peers are doing so in an effort to avoid the problem my buddy, Mr. B from the original post, has faced. I talked about it with my wife and kids, and we all decided that I would NOT do this. "I am what I am and that's what I am!" Popeye had that part right!

Nick

stchasking · 12-28-2007, 05:32 PM

Nick,

Your post is too long.

When are we going fishing?

Toobz · 12-28-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickD

...

I thought about dying my hair. MANY of my sidemen/sidewomen peers are doing so in an effort to avoid the problem my buddy, Mr. B from the original post, has faced. I talked about it with my wife and kids, and we all decided that I would NOT do this. "I am what I am and that's what I am!" Popeye had that part right!

Nick

Think of gray hair as Silver, just sounds better !

godchaser · 12-29-2007, 07:47 PM

.

Indeed Nick! Ageism's bad mojo.

This has bothered me since i was a child. Like all kids i guess; i loved the company of old people. ..I noticed the grown-ups kept their distance.

C

brem · 12-30-2007, 12:33 AM

Be wary of grey haired people!

NickD · 12-30-2007, 08:32 AM

Stchasking! Ha! Very funny! But I do know a nice spot in Door County where we can pick up some nice smallies with a slip bobber and some crawlers! (not a joke, actually...)

Toobz, Silver sounds better, I agree!

Brem! You're so right! I want to be the Will Muny of trumpet. (movie reference...)

Peace, all!

Nick

stchasking · 12-30-2007, 05:01 PM

Don't mind the silver hair.
I caught this with nightcrawler and slip bobber.

Dave Mickley · 12-30-2007, 08:03 PM

I sometimes help with different high schools in the area by sitting in the pit orch. and playing parts that the kids have trouble with and it always amazes them that this short [5"7"] old [58] guy with white hair can play swing rthyms and sight read what they have been working on. It also amazes a local swing club when our 17 piece band [about half are geezers] can swing like we do. looking back I can remember when I thought my high school jazz band were the best. we get wiser [most of us] as we get older, we also get more musical if you get my meaning. Dave

12-28-2007, 10:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
NickD Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago northern suburbs Posts: 826	Gray hair does not equate with no longer vital!! Mild Rant: Last night I worked with several fine Chicago area musicians. After we played, I had an interesting conversation with two of my favorite musicians. They shall remain nameless. The conversation really ticked me off, and I just feel compelled to say something, though I don’t expect to change things with this post, but maybe I can get folks to thinking just a bit. One gentleman is one of the finest trombone players I know, and I know some really good ones (Steve Wiest is family for crying out loud!), so when I say this gentleman is good, this is not hollow hyperbole. Let’s call him the Mr. B. I hadn’t seen him for quite a while. Now, he is 20 years older than I am, but that means nothing to me. It is however germane to the point. I asked Mr. B if he was still working with a particular society contractor. He told me, “No. I left a couple of years ago. He didn’t need a trombone player. He needed someone to stand up there and hold a trombone and look young.” I was livid! He was forced out of this guy’s band because he didn’t look like a kid. Now, I know this leader. He’s dying his hair and frantically trying to keep from looking “seasoned.” I actually understand that, sad though it be. Folks who hire bands for society events are not looking for good music or art music. They are looking for something to make their party look cool to their guests. They want to impress people as opposed to enlighten them in any way. So I can see that a leader might fall to the dark side on this issue. However, when a musician of the caliber of Mr. B gets the shaft just because he chooses to not try to hide his seasoned status, well, that ticks me off. This leader has completely fallen into shadows. Here’s where I see a double standard in society – it’s not just in music, let’s face it. Folks are EXPECTED to be impressed by youth and to expect to find that young musicians are going to bring fresh ideas and new energy to the idioms they work in. I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS! While it isn’t universal that just being a young musician makes one an innovator, many young musicians are incredibly innovative. The history of jazz bears this out. What bothers me is that the converse is NOT universally accepted. Many folks see a man like my dear friend Mr. B walk into a club and simply wonder “who is this old geezer with the trombone?” Once this “old geezer” starts playing, most will cease to harbor those thoughts, if they have any sense. This old geezer knows more tunes than anyone I know. He never misses a change when he plays jazz – NEVER!!! He has strong high chops and can read fly specks from 100 yards. He is as good a lead trombone player as you’ll find and is one of the finest jazz musicians I know. He has been one of the busiest jingle musicians in the country in his day. He can also play rock music as well as any young kid in any rock band anywhere. He can also sing like a bird! Where young musicians bring “youthful vigor and innovative ideas” to jazz or music in general, seasoned musicians like Mr. B bring experience, not only in music but in life, to bear on the ideas they bring out in jazz. You can hear this and feel it when they play! There was another fine musician there – a jazz trumpeter of remarkable skill and knowledge – who is also of the “seasoned” ilk. Upon picking up on the conversation, he commented on the notion that while this was a load of crap, this is the way it is and we simply have to live with it. This is where I disagree. Musicians like Mr. B and the trumpeter in question (Mr. B2, lets call him) deserve reverence and respect. They DON’T deserve to be shoveled off the band stand just because they have gray hair. There is no need to push guys out to make room for others just because of the “belief in age or some mysterious power of age be it old or young.” Our society is driven by vanity, to be sure. This is sad. However, it doesn’t have to stay that way. Even if only a few people start thinking differently the power of concepts and ideas can gradually take hold to change things for the better. One of my favorite movies is “Standing in the Shadow of Motown.” The subject of the movie is the Funk Brothers, the small cadre of musicians who gave life and breath to the Motown acts from Detroit. Most folks have no idea that virtually every Motown act, from Stevie Wonder to the Supremes and only one group of musicians – the Funk Brothers. Many times the acts would come in with tune sketches – a few chords and lyrics written out in scraps of paper. The Funk Brothers would cobble together hit after hit for these acts right on the spot. Now, the point of this move is that these incredible musicians were used by Barry Gordie and the big name acts in the most ungrateful fashion. These acts would take all of the credit and the money and accolades and the Funk Brothers were left out of the dream. The move producer sets this all right, and it is a must see for this reason. However, in light of this post, “Standing in the Shadow of Motown” has a secondary impact that I think is too often missed. The whole film is surrounding a reunion concert performance by the funk brothers. They are seasoned gentlemen with gray hair, grandchildren, etc. Well, when they come out onto the stage to play, they sound FANTASTIC – as good as ever – BETTER! These gentlemen can take care of business as well as any kid out there. This secondary impact of this film makes this one of the most touching movies I’ve ever seen. Yes, youth brings vigor and freshness to music. However, seasoned old age does not bring ugliness and blight! Older musicians can teach us all. Most seasoned professional musicians are open minded to new music. New music need to be open minded to them, as well! So, the next time you see some gray haired musician walk into a gig, EXPECT some greatness to come out. Odds are, he/she is expecting it from you. This can be a wonderful symbiotic event, and we can make that happen. Peace. Nick Drozdoff __________________ NickD "Free Online Lessons in Extreme Trumpet Playing" http://www.nickdrozdoff.com http://www.newyorktrumpetcompany.com/ http://www.myspace.com/nickdrozdoff

12-28-2007, 10:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
ecarroll Artist in Residence Forte User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NH/CA/PQ Posts: 1,562	Re: Gray hair does not equate with no longer vital!! Nick, Bob Brookmeyer recently told me that he just got an e-mail informing him that he was named Downbeat magazine's trombonist (not composer) of the year. Bob's 77. Perhaps there are a few enlightened ones out there afterall? Fingers crossed and not considering a hairpiece, EC

12-28-2007, 11:17 AM	#3 (permalink)
NickD Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago northern suburbs Posts: 826	Re: Gray hair does not equate with no longer vital!! Ed, Yeah to Bob! HE deserves this! Now, I didn't mean to imply that there are no enlightend folks out there of all ages. I just think we need to be diligent in dealing with this trend in culture. I thought about dying my hair. MANY of my sidemen/sidewomen peers are doing so in an effort to avoid the problem my buddy, Mr. B from the original post, has faced. I talked about it with my wife and kids, and we all decided that I would NOT do this. "I am what I am and that's what I am!" Popeye had that part right! Nick __________________ NickD "Free Online Lessons in Extreme Trumpet Playing" http://www.nickdrozdoff.com http://www.newyorktrumpetcompany.com/ http://www.myspace.com/nickdrozdoff

12-28-2007, 05:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
stchasking Forte User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,366	Re: Gray hair does not equate with no longer vital!! Nick, Your post is too long. When are we going fishing? __________________ "I was performing professionally at age 17 and have never had a real job." Allen Vizzutti http://cdbaby.com/cd/mcking

12-29-2007, 07:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
godchaser Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 543	Re: Gray hair does not equate with no longer vital!! . Indeed Nick! Ageism's bad mojo. This has bothered me since i was a child. Like all kids i guess; i loved the company of old people. ..I noticed the grown-ups kept their distance. C

12-30-2007, 12:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
brem Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Quebec City, QC, Canada Posts: 676	Re: Gray hair does not equate with no longer vital!! Be wary of grey haired people! __________________ brem ----- NYTC Stage 1 California Light - Schilke 15B mpc Bach Stradivarius Bb Model 37 * #124xxx (circa 1975) - Schilke 15B mpc Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn #000xxx - Yamaha 14F4-GP mpc

12-30-2007, 08:32 AM	#8 (permalink)
NickD Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago northern suburbs Posts: 826	Re: Gray hair does not equate with no longer vital!! Stchasking! Ha! Very funny! But I do know a nice spot in Door County where we can pick up some nice smallies with a slip bobber and some crawlers! (not a joke, actually...) Toobz, Silver sounds better, I agree! Brem! You're so right! I want to be the Will Muny of trumpet. (movie reference...) Peace, all! Nick __________________ NickD "Free Online Lessons in Extreme Trumpet Playing" http://www.nickdrozdoff.com http://www.newyorktrumpetcompany.com/ http://www.myspace.com/nickdrozdoff

12-30-2007, 05:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
stchasking Forte User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,366	Re: Gray hair does not equate with no longer vital!! Don't mind the silver hair. I caught this with nightcrawler and slip bobber. __________________ "I was performing professionally at age 17 and have never had a real job." Allen Vizzutti http://cdbaby.com/cd/mcking Last edited by stchasking; 01-25-2008 at 02:48 PM.

12-30-2007, 08:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
Dave Mickley Piano User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 385	Re: Gray hair does not equate with no longer vital!! I sometimes help with different high schools in the area by sitting in the pit orch. and playing parts that the kids have trouble with and it always amazes them that this short [5"7"] old [58] guy with white hair can play swing rthyms and sight read what they have been working on. It also amazes a local swing club when our 17 piece band [about half are geezers] can swing like we do. looking back I can remember when I thought my high school jazz band were the best. we get wiser [most of us] as we get older, we also get more musical if you get my meaning. Dave __________________ formerly known as old geezer Dave C7 Yam. 231 Fl. 15383 King Master Cornet 295628 Weril Cornet Lo 7535

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