AndrewWK

Cars these days are very brick-ish. The engines are condensed to save not only space but size and weight. Changing oil is now difficult, as well as air filters and what not. Now, trucks are using the same electronics as the cars when it comes to minimizing cylinders in use. Not only does it save gas is saves wear and tear on the car. That being said, I would worry about abnormal wear on the cylinders that are being used. I would ask if the programs in use ever switch out the cylinders so the wear is the same. Three will be much worse than the others. If you do not want to comprimise horsepower this is the way to go? If you do not drive on rugid terrain then I would suggest a Hybrid. I believe that Hondas offer hybrids in all of their models. BUT that option comes at a small fee. Yet at the same time You can get 40+ mpg.

__________________
Jon

The key to happiness is self-delusion -Dogbert

Tootsall

I don't know if they can do that, Andrew. One of the biggest problems is designing a piston engine that won't have vibration problems... different numbers of cylinders (straight 6, 4, V6, 90º V8, 60º V8) all have different vibration patterns. It might be difficult to just switch around which cylinders are receiving the compression impulses without some horrendously costly and complex adaptive vibration damping system. I think I'd trust Honda to know what they are doing and leave it at that... and if in doubt? Go for a non-variable cylinder version. The difference in mileage isn't going to make THAT much difference on a minivan... even if it is a Honda Minivan.

bandman

Well, I have done my homework and come to the conclusion that the Honda engine is very technologically advanced and the repair potential is something I need not worry about. The savings on the gas as compared to a Nissan and Toyota will be about $25/month over a 5-year period based upon 100,000 miles and $1.85/gallon. It would actually be more than that against the Toyota because the owner’s manuel for the Sienna calls for premium gas.

The Honda averages about $3000 below the Toyota and Nissan in price of comparably equipped vans. I really think they are all pretty comparable in quality. Using the gas and the price difference I get about a $75/month difference in the cost to own those vehicles for 5-years.

Overall, I really didn’t like the new Toyota (which hurts because that is what we have right now and we love it). I like the Nissan and the Honda pretty equally. I will be getting a price from three dealers for each brand of car including a 100,000-mile warranty. The Nissan Dealer I went to today throws the 10-year/100,000 mile warranty in with the van. I’m going to ask for that from all the dealers to be able to compare all of them equally.

All 5 of the dealers (one sells both Nissan and Honda) have good reputations, so I’m going to get a trade-in value and bottom line price for the new van, all as I ask for them loaded with the options I think are important. The dealer with the best cost & trade bottom line wins!

Thanks to you all for your comments and help!

__________________

MUSICandCHARACTER

Evil me ....

Bandman: I would like a bottom line price for this van.

Salesperson: Sure, but let me ask you, what would it take for you to buy it today?

Bandman: You have the lowest price of all the dealers.

Salesperson: Hmmm... I see, well prices can and do change with inventory and used market conditions. I can give you a price today ... but we may not honor that price tomorrow.

Bandman: Just give me the lowest price.

Salesperson: OK (trots off to see sales manager).

Salesperson: We can give it to you for $$$ (a ridiculously low price).

Bandman: Thanks (off to the next dealer)

Salesperson 2: What are you interested in?

Bandman: This van with these options and a 100,000 mile warranty.

Salesperson: 2: What would get you to buy it today?

Bandman: I'll be back if you have the lowest price.

Salesperson 2: OK (trots off to see the sales manager)

Salesperson 2: Here is the price ($4K more than the other dealer)

Bandman: What? XYZ dealership said they would sell it for 4K less.

Salesperson 2: They win, go buy it from them.

Salesperson 1: You are back!

Bandman: Yes, I want to buy the van at this price.

Salesperson 1: Sorry, that price was not valid once you left the lot, I will have to go back to my manager. (trots off)

Salesperson 1: Here is today's price (4K higher, the same as dealer 2).

Bandman: What? This is 4K higher.

Salesperson 1: Now what will it take for you to buy it today?

-------

In graduate school I sold cars on weekends for my friend. Dealers love to lowball price comparers because they waste time.

Better plan. Go into the dealership closest to you. Know the price you want for your trade (be reasonable) and what the price the van is selling for (easy to tell on the internet).

They start high, you start low. They ask "what would it take?" you tell them something very low. Within a hour usually, you will get to a fair price with any dealer and will have developed a relationship. It keeps you from running to 5 dealerships. Any dealer will sell it at a square price. They all buy them for the same price and have a range for the used van.

Just my musings for what little they are worth ....

Jim

__________________
Dr. Jim Fox
Licensed Mental Health Therapist
Mouthpiece chart: www.ibowtie.com/tmptmpccharts.html

AndrewWK

I was afraid of that. Thanks.

__________________
Jon

The key to happiness is self-delusion -Dogbert

bandman

Thanks Jim, but I was going to call the 5 dealerships, ask for the sales manager, tell him/her what I want, and get a price and have them fax it to me. If they don't want to play then I'll just thank them for their time and move on to the remainder of the dealers.

The only two that I plan on going to in person are the two where I drove the vehicles. I owe it to the sales people I spoke with to return to give them the chance to make the sale.

I bought my last vehicle this way and it worked well. I ended up buying from the dealership closest to my house, but I was willing to go to the next town if that is what I had to do.

I'm interested in your experience in car sales. The salesman who showed me the Nissan was very honest about what he DID NOT know about the van. I admired him for this because he could have given me all the car salesman lines. He also told me that the Nissan minivan was the worst seller of all their vehicles and they would be more than willing to do what it takes to make the sale. Such honesty is not often found at car lots.

Did I fall for a sales pitch, or does it sound like I actually found an honest salesperson?

__________________

MUSICandCHARACTER

I sold cars only on Friday and Saturdays. I was the last salesperson to take an "up" (a chance to work with a potential customer). One month I was salesperson of the month. I sold more cars than the "professionals". They HATED it. But it was because I was honest. I didn't play games, I didn't pretend to know it all.

No, I think you found an honest one -- here is why. Salespeople get marked down on the customer surveys if they do not know the product. This, of course, is not true for used cars, but it is very true for new ones. I doubt a salesperson would "pretend" not to know some features of a car. Besides, faking honesty is usually transparent.

There are some good people selling cars.

Jim

__________________
Dr. Jim Fox
Licensed Mental Health Therapist
Mouthpiece chart: www.ibowtie.com/tmptmpccharts.html

bandman

One of the dealers gave me their price today. The sticker was just over $37,000 and the discount was

$0

I have never been so insulted in my life. They low balled my trade price and then gave me a really crappy price!

Tomorrow I go to a second dealer who has already beat the first guy by a bunch of $$$$$$$$!

I hate buying cars!

__________________

MUSICandCHARACTER

That is called a "blow out" ... at least where I worked. They know you are going to go and get the lowest price and have no intention of buying until you do. They may make $500 on a low price deal. When you have that much tied up in inventory, sometimes you don't want to work that hard for $500. So they "blow you out" the door. Let some other dealer make the minimum is the philosophy.

Try it my way -- it takes less time and has less frustration!

It is like the local music store selling a Bach Strad for WWBW prices. They make about $50. Why stock the horn to make $50? Yet someone comes in the store and demands the the local dealer match WWBW's price. Many will say -- buy it a WWBW -- we do not need the hassle for $50.

Jim

__________________
Dr. Jim Fox
Licensed Mental Health Therapist
Mouthpiece chart: www.ibowtie.com/tmptmpccharts.html

bandman

We decided on the EX-L, which is the second to highest-level van from Honda. It is really nice, very comfortable, and the dealer actually gave us a great price. We had purchased from him in the past, and he remembered that I had sent him about 15 sales over the years. Our salesman is now one of the dealership managers so we really came out well.

From the time we arrived at the dealership, until the time we pulled out of the parking lot was about 2 hours! We knew what we wanted in either Nissan or Honda (he sells both) and we told him what we were willing to spend. We picked a van on his lot that had everything we wanted (from Honda you choose vehicle packages), gave him a price we were willing to pay including our trade-in, and he actually beat the price we gave him by about $300. The entire deal was done in a very professional manner!

Just as a final note, those who say there is no difference between dealers are foolish. The difference between 3 Honda Dealers, on an EX-L, all equipped the exact same way (with one very small additional feature on the van we bought) was over $5000 from the most expensive to the van we bought. Comparing it to a comparably equipped Nissan the difference was over $7000 from the most expensive to the van we bought. The strange thing is that I bet we could have gone to a Nissan dealer in another part of the country and found a Nissan Van at the same price we paid for the Honda. The difference between the Nissan and Honda at the dealership this afternoon was less than $1000.


Thanks to those of you who gave me advice throughout this process. Just as an aside, I titled the van in my wife's name due to my health problems. I also had the title of my truck changed over to her name. I'm hoping that this will help her in the event that my upcoming surgery does not go well. We have been married for 27-years so I have no fear of her running off with the postman, but I did have fears of her being in an older vehicle if something should happen to me.

As we get older, and the reality of our fate sets in, isn't it amazing how much we grow up and want things to be nice for those people we love!?! I also find it amazing how often we are willing to take time to offer advice and encouragement to people we don't even know, just as many of you offered up your knowledge about this car, when I had very little knowledge about it when I started looking for a new van.

Thanks to you all for being nice people. Sometimes people here can get a little testy at times, but 99.9% of the time this is a great place with great friendship and comradeship!

__________________