gzent

Liad,

I'm very sorry to hear of your loss. Peace to you and your house. We're glad you are back.

Greg

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Tootsall

Hey Liad. I'm not going to ask how you're doing... you've pretty much answered that already. I do want to welcome you back.... from personal experience with loss of family members (different situation but equally senseless) I can say that "life must go on" and getting back "into the groove" with fellow mankind is very healing.

I look forward to seeing you tossing your two sheckels into the forums on a regular basis.

Still Trying

I haven't been to Iraq, although my being there in the next 6 to 12 months is a distinct possibility. But I have lived and worked in two Muslim countries: Nigeria and Saudi Arabia. And also I have had several long talks with my son-in-law, who just returned from a year in Tikrit. The First Division, of which our Bamberg Gang is a part, replaced the Forth Division, of which my son-in-law is a member. And my son-in-law has confirmed everything Gary reported. What we are seeing through the media is about 1 % of what is going on over there. For one thing, the media is only reporting our losses. The body count on the other side is huge. We just never hear results from the thousands of raids and activities carried out by the good guys (that's our Army and Marines for James from Philly and anyone else, who can't recognize who the "good guys" are).

And also Liad is 100% correct. This is a religious war. It's just that the majority of Americans don't have the spiritual perspicacity to realize that. As a populace, we have lost the capacity to understand the mind set of someone with religious beliefs held so deeply, as to be willing to die for those beliefs. Unfortunately, we may win all the battles and lose the war, because the politicians fail to appreciate the type of war in which we are engaged. One cannot reason with someone, whose activities are dictated by religious conviction, even if those religious convictions seem absurd to us. One can't hold a conviction much more deeply than to be willing to kill himself to advance its causes. We can't reason with someone like that because his actions are not the result of rationality, but rather obedience to a set of beliefs and dogmas. When confronted by someone, who cannot be reasoned with or deterred, and is determined to kill you, even if he has to die carrying out that purpose, what are your choices? Primative as it may sound, you choices are kill or be killed. The USA and the rest of the civilized world does not have the mind set to defend itself in this type of war. And there are 1.2 billion muslims. Iraq is just the tip of the iceberg. Historically, the civilized world has never been a match for barbarians. By the time the civilized realize they really are in a fight to the death, they've already lost it.

The whole world seems to be against Israel's attempts to defend themselves against an enemy that has only one purpose on the face of this earth-to kill every last Jew in Israel. The Jews understand this. They, I believe, recognize precisely that they are fighting for their lives. The muslims hate us, (even our muslim "friends") because they blame us for Israel's continued existence. But it's not the first time the might of the United States has been pitted against muslim fanatics. The same thing happened in the Phillipines after we took possession of them succeeding the Spanish American War. And, Buddy, they fought us to a stand still for years. And they did that with swords and close range attacks while we were occupying their country with repeating rifles and machine guns.

And, Liad, I also am extremely sorry for your loss. And I'm glad to see you posting on TM again. May the Lord in His mercy protect the remainder of your family from similar losses in the future.

__________________
S.T.

What do we have that we did not receive, and if we received it, why do we glory, as if we received it not?

Tootsall

Great post, Jesse. And right ON the mark; especially with respect to your comments re: "kill or be killed", "failure to understand", "a dogma in which it is considered Holy to die in support of the cause" (all paraphrased of course). Exactly what I was alluding to in my earlier comments about our culture's inability to understand that others have different cultures and beliefs and that we HAVE to deal with them differently than what our natural inclination is. Our real problem is that OUR culture doesn't allow us to accept that depth of understanding of "difference in mindset" and that we have been taught that we lose something of ourselves if we allow ourselves to "descend" to "their" level.

Perhaps Mr. Bush should not have gone after Iraq the way he did... or perhaps he did the right thing. Only history will know the answer and even then it might be horribly obscured by the politics of the historians. Either way, the troops who are "in the thick of it" have my admiration and support. ALL the troops from the "Western World" regardless of their nationality and regardless of WHERE they are stationed. It wasn't the Western World who called it a "jihad", but that's exactly what it is.

jamesfrmphilly

the thing is, you could get a Muslim and he would say the same thing about you, just in reverse.

as long as you have two sides who each believe that they are 100% right
and the other is a subhuman, there will be nothing but blood.

it seems that everyone who posts here, especially the military types, is 100% correct and all knowing and if you question them, you are wrong for even asking. maybe this is the way they have to be in order to be in the military?

i just don't think that putting on the uniform makes you a God.
what's up with this idea that anyone in uniform can not be disagreed with or questioned or criticized?

are they now supermen?

i thought the principle they were fighting for was that we(civilians) had the right to free speech.
is that only free speech unless it is to a soldier?
i mean, if these guys are so tough why can't they handle a simple question or God forbid, a difference of opinion?

is there anyone in this forum who can tolerate diversity?

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FreshBrewed

I'm sorry to hear of your loss Liad. I'll keep you in my prayers.

It's good to see you drop in on the TM.

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Mike
Eclipse MHY Bell
1949 Olds Ambassador

Listening has nothing to do with moving your mouth!

Japle

Exactly right, Gary.
Being a soldier is a dangerous way to make a living. Soldiers know that. I've been in 3 wars and my buddies and I could have been killed without warning in any of them. Everyone knows that's part of the job.
Civilians sitting at home watching the tube don't seem to understand that soldiers die. It's expected. It's not pleasant, but it's how the job gets done.
I recall seeing a statistic after the 1st Gulf War that said more soldiers would have been killed in car wrecks and other hazards of off-post life than died on duty in the war zone. I doubt that's true this time.
On the other hand, we need to learn how to fight this new kind of war. We won't learn stateside sitting in classrooms.
If we can establish a democratic government in Iraq, that will go a long way toward cooling down the whole area. It's worth the cost to do that.

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ScreaminRaider

Jamesfrmphilly,

I don't think you get it. It's not a question of who is right or wrong...You questioned the loyalty and patriotism of one of our soldiers! Sure, putting on that uniform doesn't make them God, but it does give them a responsibility that neither you or I can ever begin to understand. That is why they deserve so much respect. Now, I am done arguing this point.


Liad, I am new to TM. I am sorry for your loss. You and your family are in my prayers.

To all soldiers in Iraq- Keep your heads down, and come home safe.


JGW

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Jonathan Wright

Tootsall

Only thing I can add is "keep the other end down too". You'll need the practice of covering it for civilian life should you ever end up in management!

Thevor

James,

According to you, when the gangs from Philly rule the street and are completely out of control, killing your friends, raping women and wreaking havoc on your life, the solutions is to negotiate with the killers and blame the cops........... does this make sense?

This situation is no different than the street gangs, its just on a global scale. The gangs on 911 decided to bring it to our streets and thankfully we had someone in office that had the balls to say "not on my watch". Its time the thugs paid the piper.

Fortunately for all of us, there are many good men and women willing to serve this country knowing the price of my/your freedom may be their life.

So, James, go ahead and spew your trash and whine all you want but know someone else died so that you could sh*t on their grave. You unthankful ingrate.

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