Ash

Let's not call names, Mikey. Perhaps if you didn't pepper your posts with insults I would be a little more inclined to read your entire posts. As it is, I can't possibly wade through hearing about how I'm a fat bleeding-heart liberal. I know the truth hurts, but there are some conservatives who are fat (Rush Limnbaugh) and some conservatives who didn't do active duty (GWB). By the way, I have some bad ones up my sleeve for conservatives.
If I may add some musings on experience:
While a soldier may have a first hand view, it is important to remember he only sees one side of the story, and he is not without bias. He doesn't get to see inside the lives of Iraqis.
James, on the other hand, only sees one side of his issue. He only sees the poverty and drugs. He doesn't see what Gary sees, or what an Iraqi militant sees. They each see different sides of the issue. We can debate all day long whose experience is worth more, but they are not all alike and cannot be compared as such. Just so you know, I'm not denying anything anyone has said.

Also, it is out of line for James to question a soldiers patriotism. Patriotism comes in many shapes and sizes, and it's not up for anyone to judge. Recently, a member on TH accused another of being unpatriotic for not saying anything positive about the US. This is also wrong.

Thevor,
Please don't call names. James isn't being unthankful, he's using critical thinking. Whether you agree with his conclusions are a seperate point. If someone brings me a glass of milk, and I say I'm lactose intolerant, am I ungrateful? Granted, this issue is more complicated, but I think the logic applies.

P.S. I realize that the thread has moved on since what I'm referring to, but I think it's an important point.

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1974 Raw Brass 37
1933 King Cornet

Castle Bravo

I can't handle a question? I can't tolerate diversity? I don't support free speech?
I handled your question, and its my duty to educate those with incomplete information. Admit that you're a closed minded argumentative individual.
I love diversity. Our Army is full of it, and and statisticly speaking, there is much less racism and discrimination in the military because we don't really care what color you are or who you call God as long as you can hump your sh*t, cover me and kill the bad guy. As far as a religous war, Our war is not against muslims, but the VERY SMALL percentage of muslims that twist the faith to suit their own GANG. Make no mistake, militant islam is organized crime and terrorism.
Free speech?? Talk away. I'm here defending your right to talk smack about me. You're welcome.

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Gary Wilder

orchtrpt

Gary,

What kind of duties do you have to perform in Iraq. I take it you are in a band but you also do soldier stuff. Or is it the opposite?What do you make of the situation in Fallujah. From what I understand it is the Marines that are in charge and are doing the fighting in that area. From news reports it sounds like alot of Americans are getting hurt or killed there. What is the view of the soldiers over there in this situation? How do they view Fallujah?

jamesfrmphilly

I'm certainly argumentative but never closed minded.

how did it become your duty to educate me?

how did you get complete information?

does the possession of complete information make it impossible for you to value my opinion?

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1946 Martin Committee, Bach 5V

trpguyy

When that opinion is ignorantly based soley on incorrect information, I believe that opinion is invaluale.

jamesfrmphilly

wha?

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1946 Martin Committee, Bach 5V

trpguyy

Your opinion is based on erroneous information. When you go ignorantly spouting off, then refuse to accept the truth, that opinion becomes invaluable.

Ash

One mans erroneous information is another mans gospel.

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1974 Raw Brass 37
1933 King Cornet

Tootsall

Guys, yer all getting off topic. Personal attacks won't solve anything but only provide additional "fuel" for an unnecessary fire. Of course, maybe that was the intent of the original message all along... or maybe not.

The point is, the US Military IS in Iraq; Sadam HAS been captured; the bombings continue while Muslim radicals are actively working to create as much mayhem as they possibly can; Israel and Palestine ARE still locked in a battle for "living space" ("liebensraum?"...where have I heard THAT line before?); brother is pitted against brother; and people are dying.

Whether you question George Bush's motives or not is NO LONGER the essence of the problem. Who wins the next US election is also NOT "of the essence".

The question is... "Can mankind get out of this mess without wholesale slaughter of innocents and festering hatred of one side against another?" If the answer is "Yes", then the second question kicks in "How?". If THAT question is answered then the third question is "ARE WE ALL WILLING TO PAY THE NECESSARY PRICE? Are we willing to accept the highly probable 'Loss of Face'?; Are the Muslims?"

Just my opinion, but that is what we should be discussing, gentlemen, if we are to ever find our way out of this morass.

Clarino

I think Gary made the point I was going to make very well, but I would like to reiterate that this is NOT a religeous war. We liberated Iraq from a tyranical, secular dictator. Saddam is not like Bin Laden.

Jesse, please do not imply here that 1.2 Billion Muslims are biggoted xenophobes who are all determined to kill me an my family. You sound foolish. Are you suggesting that all Christians and Jews should tool up and go out to kill all Muslims before they get the chance to kill us? THIS IS NOT THE CRUSADES!

James, I am not saying that FOX are engaged in a conspiracy to conceal the truth about the war, they just want the best headlines in order to get ratings. "Locals bake cakes for Welsh Guards" would not be much of a headline.


Liad, it's good to see you here again. My prayers will be with you and your family.