tom turner

Amen brother!

The most expensive part of new ammunition (not counting the necessary profit margin added by the manufacturer and retailer), is the brass.

All shooters who love to shoot a lot realize real fast that they need to get a reloading press outfit, save their brass (and pick up all the once-fired, store-bought brass in their caliber that folks foolishly leave at the range.

Reloading indeed, saves MOST of the expense of purchasing new ammo . . . even the cheap stuff at Wally-World.

FUNNY . . . BUT TRUE . . .

I got to go, with a few area shooters a few years ago to a regional police training facility and range to participate in a 3-gun tactical match (handgun, tactical shotgun and submachine gun).

While waiting for the event to start, we wandered over to another range on the property used for handgun training and qualification. ON THE GROUND WAS GOLDEN TREASURE EVERYWHERE . . .

Yep, BRAND NEW BRASS in .40 Short & Wimpy and .45ACP (plus some 9mm). The best brass (Federal and Remington) that tax money can buy! The cops weren't devout, handloading shooters obviously, so they just left it all on the ground for someone else to have to pick up. In this case, ME!

I'd reloaded my .45ACP brass sooooo many times at that point that I really needed some new stuff anyway to reload!!!

TIP TO NEW SHOOTERS . . . after you get enough brass, save on new ammo by investing in a Dillon 550 reloading rig. You'll be glad you did . . . and I wish I had! Instead, I "saved" money and bought a Lee Turret set up that is MUCH slower. It would take me five hours to reload what my friends can do in about an hour.

T.

MJ

Ok Tom,

You almost got me sold. Can you guys give me an idea on start up costs for this kind of thing. In my situation 9mm

I also need the Clifs notes version on how re-loading works. I get you save the brass. Where do you get the powder? Where do you get the bullets. And newbie question but how do you "re prime" the round?

Do I need to buy a scale to measure the powder?

I'm just clueless but very interested!

Also what does used ammo do to the gun. Does it put wear and tear on it?

tom turner

Hi MJ,

Here's a link to Dillon's site, and specifically to the 550B. If you just think you'll stick with one caliber (highly unlikely), then the Dillon "Square Deal B" is a cool little machine.

http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=12&dyn=1&

Most serious shooters I know use a 550, or 650 (for some of the "spray and pray" guys who shoot lots of IPSC matches).

Some recommend that one begin with a simple press, such as my Lee turret, to learn the basics. However, reloading is very simple when you follow directions.

I'll try to answer several of your questions:

Any decent shop that sells guns. Gun shows are sometimes even better!

The best place is a good gun show! Local gun shops and sporting goods stores also cater to us reloaders. I prefer purchasing my lead bullets for practice (and competitions) this way.

However, your Glock won't handle lead bullets right, so you'll have to either go with jacketed bullets (which wear the barrel quicker) or purchase an aftermarket barrel for your Glock with a different rifling pattern.

Also, the way the Glock chambers, and supports the round makes a Glock sheer hell on ejected brass. Maybe some active Glock shooters can jump in and give some suggestions, and possibly the latest generation of Glocks has solved this problem, but I'm not sure. For Glocks, generally you don't want to re-use the brass nearly as often. In non-Glocks, one can reload brass probably 100 times or more!

Several ways! On a 550, you simply load 'em in the tube (correct side up) and pull the lever and the machine reloads the entire bullet in a rotation. VERY FAST!!! You can reload about 500 rounds in an HOUR on a 550.

On my Lee turret, I can only do one step in the entire process at a time (insert a spent cartridge, pull the lever to remove the old primer, take the deprimed cartridge out, insert another . . . and so on. Then I take a whole tray of deprimed brass and use my Lee hand primer tool to insert a new primer into each cartridge, one at a time. YOU GET THE PICTURE. Eventually, I get about FIFTY cartridges an hour reloaded, vs. 500 for the 550B. That's why I recommend the 550 to you.

No. Everything you need basically comes in the kit, although with a Dillon, they offer accessory items that you'll buy later probably, that automate the process even more!

No, actually, a good reloader loads their practice ammo much less stout than the ammo one buys in a store! Not only does this save on gunpower and shooter fatigue . . . the lower velocities can greatly reduce the wear and tear on the handgun.

Many IPSC shooters use the cheaper factory ammo in matches . . . for the judges know that certain brands will chronograph up to "specs" for velocity and usually feed like crazy. Then they use their brass for later reloading.


SOME PEOPLE ALSO CAST THEIR OWN LEAD BULLETS TOO . . . getting their lead from discarded lead wheel weights from a tire store. Super cheap . . . but ya gotta be careful around the fumes and residue.

Hope this helps!

Tom

PS: When you get into reloading, purchase two or three "recipie books" (reloading manuals) from the key companies. You'll find recommended loads, specs for bullet lengths, ballistic tables, ballistic co-efficients and trajectories for specific bullets, etc., that will allow you do "dial in" your ammo!

For instance, my .44mag reloads, with the 300 gn. bullet I use and the specific power charge I use, causes the bullet to drop 34" at 200 yards. Interesting trivia like this helps you be a better shooter!!!

EXAMPLE: A friend of mine was working on a road crew on summer payday years ago, when he pulled out his .45 auto well out in the isolated country. He told his buddies that he was going to "try" to hit an oil can that was about 50 yards away.

They took the bait and bet him he couldn't. My buddy upped the ante, and raised the bet higher if he could hit the can at 100 yards!

They were dumb enough to take him up on it! They didn't know that he was a REAL marksman and fine handloader . . . and that he knew exactly how much a specific weight and shaped .45 bullet would drop at 100 yards.

"You don't think you can really hit that little can with that .45 that far out," they exclaimed.

They should have really listened to his next words: "Welllll, the bullet is gonna go where it is supposed to go, so I'll hit it if I do my part." How correct he was . . . for he knew how to compensate for the drop of the bullet perfectly!

Nawwww, the average street punk doesn't know where his bullet goes, neither does a cop or casual civilian "plinker." But once you begin to reload, you learn this stuff . . . and as soon as you truly understand where the bullet will actually go, and you do YOUR part . . . a handgunner can do some amazing things with their handgun!!!

He took much of their paycheck that day!!!

T.

PS: I pulled that same trick on a company VP, during a trophy whitetail hunt. I knew that the novice hunters would sight in their rifles, at about 50 yards, in a 250 yard deep field on the afternood we arrived. I calculated the trajectory of my .44 mag bullets through a 6" barrel and discovered that the round would drop exactly 34" at 200 YARDS!

When everyone went out to set up targets, I kept going . . . pacing and counting my stride until I had gone 200 yards out. I left a milk jug out there.

When I finally got back, one asked, "Tom, where's your rifle? That's a long shot for a rifle!" I replied, "No, I'm going to use my revolver here." You should have seen everyone's eyes." One VP took the bait:

"Do you really think you can hit that milk jug waaaay out across that field with a HANDGUN?," he asked.

He probably didn't listen to my reply:

"Sure! The bullet is going to go where it's gonna go. I'll hit the milk jug if I do my part!" Heck, I'd measured . . . and PRACTICED back home on several occasions . . . to know exactly where the bullet would go . . . at 200 yards. The guy didn't know I'd paced my steps.

You should have hear and seen 'em when I went prone and braced the gun on the ground . . . and then fired. A milk jug will really "jump" when it has been slammed with a .44 round at 200 yards! LOL

T.

SteelyDan

MJ,
I'll definitely second Tom's advice on a Dillon progressive if it's in your budget. When I got started in reloading I was on a REALLY tight budget and elected to go with an RCBS Rockchucker kit (usually less than $300 retail). Yes, it's slower since you can only use one die at a time, but I do everything in batches now to make up for it.

Furthermore Tom is spot on with where to buy components and on Glock barrels. I'm an avid Glock shooter that only recently purchased a Non-Glock semiauto(will you ever forgive me, Gaston?!) in the form of a Springfield XD. The Glock has a chamber that is not fully supported towards the rear(not good for life of brass) and polygonal rifling(very bad for lead bullets.) Both of these potential problems can be quickly overcome by having a spare barrel with a fully supported chamber for practicing with reloaded ammo.

All of my practice ammo is loaded down to relatively low pressure and velocity to make each practice session more of a fun activity and less of a chore. Although some reloaders get obsessed with the speed demon and load up some real firecrackers that squeeze every last bit of energy from their cartridges, they usually find out the hard way that it's really not a good idea to do so. If your velocity is exceeding what the load manual says it should be, it isn't a sign that you're warming up and should be congratulated. It's a sign that you're probably about to personally redefine the meaning of the word "HANDGRENADE".

Tom,
Kudos on finding the "buried treasure"! I also really dig your stories on marksmanship. Too many people get caught up in "keeping up with the Jones'" when they should be PRACTICING with the equipment they already own. Come to think of it, kinda sounds like some musicians I've heard of...

Have fun everyone!
SD

__________________
Why are we so obsessed with bore size? Are we trying to compensate for something?

MJ

Steely, I shot an XD9 Service model for the first time about a month ago. I thought it was great. It felt awesome in my hand and it was very accurate. I'm not a big fan of the grip safety and the loaded chamber indicator. I can understand why some people might like that. To me it just felt a bit less refined then the Glock.

I have heard before Soringfield got into brining these over from Croatia they these were caled HS2000 and priced well under a Glock. Now I think they are the same price.

So what you guys are telling me is its not a good idea to shoot reloads with a Glock. I don't think Im interested in buying another barrel for it.

I have talked many times to Tom T in the past about getting a .22. I only wish there was a 22 that had the grip angle of the glock. If I was into the 1911s I would not hesitate to get one of those Ruger 22/45s. I have heard the grip angle is the same. I might just wind up buying one anyway so I can shoot more.

Anyone shot one of the Walther's in 22???

SteelyDan

MJ,
I can understand how you feel as that was the same dilemma I was facing initially. Now, although I haven't handled one of the Walther .22's you mentioned, I did buy a Ruger 22/45 about 10 years ago. It's still my only .22 rimfire pistol; lotsa fun!

Have a great night!
SD

__________________
Why are we so obsessed with bore size? Are we trying to compensate for something?

tom turner

The Ruger 22/45 is the way to go on a great, super-accurate .22 auto!

And yep, I've seen more than one Glock blow up during matches when guys load really hot rounds . . . and probably in reloaded brass that their Glock has already weakened from several times of bulging-then resizing in their presses during the reload process.

Quality barrels for Glocks that accept lead bullets and are fully supported around the brass (as they should be!!!) ARE available . . . and the money you'll save being able to reload your brass scores of times will soon be much cheaper than shooting virgin brass in the original Glock barrel.

I love the Glock handguns, but these two issues has always troubled me. A competition shooter can shoot (in practice and competition), several hundred rounds PER DAY!!! If a fellow wants to practice well enough to hang with the top shooters, they'll HAVE to get a different barrel . . . or will need to be super-rich to afford all that virgin ammol.

A FINAL POINT ON REPLACEMENT BARRELS . . .

A serious shooter can run 15,000-30,000 rounds A YEAR, through their centerfire auto. Within a year, the barrel is either worn out from running so many of those harsh, full-metal jacketed bullets through it . . . or clogged from lead residue no matter how hard one cleans it.

Replacement barrels are just the cost of shooting. Otherwise, an auto can look real nice, and have a shiny, smooth bore . . . but be "keyholing" bullets at 20 yards with a great loss of accuracy!

When the barrel's rifling is shot and the barrel's inner diamer is reamed too large from being worn out, it causes the bullet to tumble end over end, rather than spin in a tight spiral.

This is called "keyholing." I've actually seen a fine shooter buy a used auto before that looked great . . . but the bullets were punching holes in the targets that showed the bullet hit it SIDEWAYS . . . at only 10 yards. A new barrel too care of the problem.

T.