tom turner

Hi,

Sorry, I've been out of town all week so I haven't been near a computer.

Hands down, I've never ever liked any rifle scopes to the same degree as the Leupold line. If one goes to a benchrest rifle competition they'll see almost only Leupolds on the line! They absolutely, positively hold their zero and . . . when you must click the scope up, down, left or right, the adjustment you get is exactly correct and dependable!

The rule of thumb for a quality deer rifle set up is to plan to spend as much on the scope as the rifle! Most folks don't do this but I recommend it if at all possible. Topgun, if you can . . . spring for a Leupold Vari-XII series scope rather than their new "Rifleman." Past Leupolds became famous for their super accurate and totally repeatable 1/4" @ 100yds. click stop adjustments.

However . . . the new Rifleman is totally different and uses NO click stop adjustments at all . . . only 1/2" @ 100 yds. coarse adjustments. Leupold felt that since deer rifle scopes aren't topping benchrest rifles, and thus wouldn't need to be adjusted all the time for different loads and distances, that the simple adjustments would be fine. Heck, the original Leupold click system is what makes a Leupold so good!

Additionally, the coatings on the Rifleman, Vari-XII and Vari-XIII series scopes are all different. The Vari-XIII series really excels when one must swing their rifle in the direction of the sun . . . it "scatters" less light inside it so the image doesn't get light and hazy. The Vari-XII is almost as good but I read there is a noticable drop off in performance on the Rifleman.

Still . . . if your budget won't allow a Vari-XII, I suspect that you'll be pleased with the Rifleman . . . at least until you have it for a while and then get to use a buddy's Vari-XII or Vari-XIII.

Hope this helps,

Tom

MY REGRET . . .
I once was in a Georgia deer club that only had thick woods. At the time my Remington LH (yup, I'm left handed) 700BDL in .270 was topped by the incredible Leupold Vari-X3 6.5x20 adjustable objective "super scope." Since I had no long shots, this was WAAAAAAY too much magnification so I sold the scope used for $400 (they sell for around $600 new). Then . . . they "clear cut" much of the club and I had 400 yd. shots. Bummer.

Man, I wish I still had that scope . . .

Topgun, the Vari-XIII series is a no-compromi$$$e scope and really not needed by many. However, the Vari-XII series is the way to go. Invest a little more than the Rifleman and, in the long run, I assure you that you won't regret it!!!

TopGun

Mr. Gleason and Mr. Turner thanks for all the great information. Looks like I need to think about steping up to the plate and save up for the VX II. Are the synthetic stocks better because they don't react to weather? Any other tips would be welcome.

Thanks,
TopGun

ps - Tom, I knew you would show up on the thread sooner or later. :wink:

tom turner

Well . . . I love the looks of a beautiful, high-grade wooden stock on a bright blued rifle. However . . . there's a lot to be said about the matte black or camo synthetic stock on a matte black finished rifle . . . for there's little glare to catch light and be noticed by game! Stainless stell on a black synthetic stock is also a beautiful option . . . and one needing less care than the blued guns.

Plus . . . I HATE any extra weight that I have to tote and the synthetic stocks are usually lighter than the wood ones!

Additionally, the synthetic stock rifles usually don't require the owner to custom "glass bed" and "float" the barrel like is usually done to production wood-stocked rifles to improve accuracy.

Tom

Anonymous

I also had a feeling Tom would show up!

Patrick has provided us with some excellent information here. Thanks Again!

Tom, What do you shoot in terms of hanguns. I know you do some competitions if I am not mistaken. What do you like? What don't you like?

TopGun

Could you tell me a couple of good places that sell VX II? I assume this is something that I would likely not want to buy over ebay.

Thanks,
TG

trickg

Tom!!! Thank goodness you dropped in on this. :) I have pretty much exhausted my limited knowledge on this subject and you really made some fine points about hunting optics, namely the rule of thumb (which I have heard, but had forgotten) that you should spend as much money on the scope as you did on the rifle.

Dad always swore by that Leupold 3x9x40 Vari-X II that he had mounted on that sporterized/customized Mauser. I have witnessed him nailing many a prairie dog with that rifle at 300 + yards, and that's no BS. He was always a better rifle shot than me anyway. As he got older and his eyes started to go a bit, I finally got to where I could outshoot him shooting blue rocks (clay pigeons), but I never got to where I could best him with either a handgun or a rifle, not that I didn't try. I was starting to catch up to him on that when he passed away.

Anyway, back to the subject, I was just on a drummers' forum trying to convince a kid that he would be better off saving up some cash and buying the Sabian AAs and AAXs that he really wants rather than the B8s that he can currently afford. This is much the same kind of thing.

I remember reading the American Rifleman review on the Leupold Rifleman Scope and I recall that their chief complaint was the adjustment knobs and the fact that they don't click, they just move, and it was easy to over adjust. That's one nice thing about the Leupold Vari-X series. If you are sighting in with a sight-in target, all you have to do is find where you are shooting, up down left or right, count the inches from center, and count clicks, four per inch at a 100 yd zero. (I don't know the official name of this target, but it's the one with the big diamond in the middle, four little diamonds in the corners and the whole thing is put on a grid of 1" squares) With a good bench rest and known target distance, it doesn't take much to get that rifle zeroed.

This has really given me the itch to go shoot again. One day I'll put together a nice rifle for myself, or maybe Mom will eventually give me some of Dad's collection. If that ever happens, there are several nice rifles there and finding one of them to baby and tweak shouldn't be a problem.

trickg

Tom,

I have a question for you. I mentioned the sporterized/customized Mauser in 25-06. Dad had made a comment that due to the large number of rounds that had been fired through that rifle over the years that much of the fine accuracy had been shot out of that barrel. (A few thousand rounds under that kind of force and pressure can certainly wear things down a bit!) It was still a pretty danged accurate rifle, but not quite like it was when it was finished, although a little JB Bore cleaner to remove the copper fouling usually helped things.

My question is this: Should I ever get that rifle, should I just leave it as it is, or should I invest the cash to have it rebarreled? This is a sweet rifle in virtually every regard. It was customized by my father, who was the local gunsmith in my home town. There were some things that he couldn't do in his workshop, but only because he didn't have the equipment there in his workshop, not because he didn't know how. (For example, he didn't have hot bluing tanks, he just used Brownells Oxpho Blue for touch ups.) Anyway, the rifle has a gorgeous stock, a custom bolt, it looks beautiful, but it was extremely accurate for a wood stocked rifle. It was meant to be used, not looked at.

Anway, if you have ever done this sort of thing, I'd love to hear what you have to say about it.

TopGun

I don't think Leupold makes the VX-II any more. I can not find them anywhere. How do you guys feel about buying one off ebay?

Mr. Gleason I looked in to the gun beading at the link you put up. How do you use that stuff? There were some explinations on the sight but they seem more geared for experts and that I am not.

Thanks,
TopGun

tom turner

There were tons of surplus Mausers that flooded the market after WWII, as these fine WWI rifles finally were released to the public. Unfortunately those original Mausers had five mile long barrels and massively long wooden stocks so there was, for a time, a booming business in the "customized" Mauser field!

Most had their barrels simply shortened and recrowned and their stocks cut down, reshaped and refinished but some were works of art.

Many people feel that the Mauser action was/is the most reliable and failsafe action ever designed . . . totally over-engineered and fantastic!

TWO CHOICES . . .
Shoot it carefully and see how it groups. If it is under 2 or 3" 3-shot groups (at 100 yards) it should be fine for most hunting (unless you are out West with 500 shots!) If it turns out to be that accurate, you may wish to leave it just as it is and confidently hunt with it . . . as a long-time reminder of your dad and his Mauser.

OR . . .
Heck, it's already customized once, so there's no sin in rebarreling the rifle . . . putting on a new, custom stock and investing in a fine blueing job. The rifle probably won't cost you much and so your investment in beautifying and accurizing this classic rifle would be well worth it!

My gun-collecting brother has tons of rifles . . . but hunts with me with his own chopped Mauser (with it's reshaped and shortened original stock). Last time we hunted together I dropped three deer back-to-back coming down into a bottom I was hunting with my 6" S&W .44 magnum revolver. This pushed a running buck across the ridge of a clear cut 150 yards away where my brother was sitting in a stand. He dropped that running buck at 75 yards with his custom Mauser.

IN ANY EVENT . . .
Take the Mauser to a fine gunsmith and have it thoroughly checked out and get estimates. Lots can be done to make these rifles really shoot!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

TopGun

"My gun-collecting brother has tons of rifles . . . but hunts with me with his own chopped Mauser (with it's reshaped and shortened original stock). Last time we hunted together I dropped three deer back-to-back coming down into a bottom I was hunting with my 6" S&W .44 magnum revolver. This pushed a running buck across the ridge of a clear cut 150 yards away where my brother was sitting in a stand. He dropped that running buck at 75 yards with his custom Mauser. "

Wow. Looks like you boys will be in good shape for BBQ for a while. I am very impressed to hear of your use of the revolver. Very cool.

TG