FreshBrewed

I think NK's bark is worse than their bite. They can't even feed their own population? What makes anyone think they could sustain an Army in time of war? Besides, they are not invading their neighbors.

__________________
Mike
Eclipse MHY Bell
1949 Olds Ambassador

Listening has nothing to do with moving your mouth!

Clarino

On that basis we should have gone after Israel long ago.

I know that this is going to generate a lot of flames, but this is an important point.

gzent

Clarino,

Huge difference - Unlike Israel, North Korea and Iraq are not surrounded by hostile nations (200+ million in Arabia) that want to eliminate them, via mass murder, from the face of the earth.

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Japle

Japle wrote:
Because Kim isn't a credible threat to his neighbors.
He isn't in violation of a bunch of UN mandates.
He isn't sitting in the middle of a zillion oil wells with a record of setting them on fire if he doesn't get his way.
He is allowing his subjects to starve and live in horrible poverty, but so are the rulers of large chunks of Africa.


On that basis we should have gone after Israel long ago.

Israel has never invaded a neighbor. They've responded to attacks, and they should have, IMNSHO.

Iarael never set fire to anyone's oil wells that I can remember.

The citizens of Israel aren't starving or living anywhere the poverty level.

__________________
John
Kanstul Chicago 1070
GR 62M
The Mute Rack!!
http://home.cfl.rr.com/themuterack/
Cape Canaveral

jamesfrmphilly

i think we're suppose to hit Iran and Syria first. 8)

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Clarino

Greg, Neither is Israel. Most Muslims in the area desire peace. The exteme hatred between Jews and Muslims is equally ballanced.

The PLOs stated objective, contrary to popular belief, is not to rid the world of Jews but to end the illegal ocupation of Palestine by Israel.

Japle, as my previous sentence illustrated, Israel has invaded it's neighbour and continues to occupy Palestinian land in clear violation of many UN security council resolutions.

As for responding to attacks, when a Palestinian suicide bomber blows themself up killing innocent civilians the Israeli authority does respond. Not proportionally, as you might expect by rooting out terrorist cells and depriving terrorists of munitions or opportunity to carry out further attacks, but by destroying the home of the bomber. Thus rendering his recently widowed wife and family homeless. I am all for (strong) justice for people who commit such awful crimes, but attacking the family because the assailant is unable to stand trail is simply vindictive.

It is useless for us to debate this in depth here, the only way peace will be achieved is if both sides accept each others right to exist and Israel withdraws from palestine. Unfortunately a small minority on each side is determined to prevent this from ever happening.

Edit: To learn more about this dispute you may wish to watch "Children of Abraham" which aired on Channel 4 in the UK last night. I don't know if this is available online, but I believe documentaries such as this sometimes cross the pond to US TV. It contains some facinating interviews with advocates of extreme views on all sides of the Jewish/Christian/Muslim religeous divide.

gzent

Clarino,

If one only bases their opinion on the middle east on 10-20 second sound bites from the mainstream press, one might see how you came to that conclusion. Thnigs aren't that simple. Peace is the last thing in the hearts of the Hamas, Fatah and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (radical PLO faction). These three groups are actively fueling the flames of hatred in the West Bank, especially among young men.

Take a look at this Associated Press article from Dec. 12, 2003 and then explain why the peace loving, progressive university students put these thugs in charge of their student body.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pa...ID=0&listSrc=Y

__________________
Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation

Ash

There are many Muslim countries. There is one Jewish country. Jews have been persecuted for many thousands of years. Isreal is the only country to accept any Jew into its borders as a citizen. Where else can a Jew go to flee persecution? I still don't understand why the Jews can't have just one country. Was there this much conflict when Britain controlled Isreal? Why does Isreal belong to the Palestinians is my question.

P.S. Gzent, it looks like we found something we agree on!

__________________
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Japle

I have more respect for Israel that any other country within 3,000 miles.
Their biggest mistake is trying to get along with any of their neighbors. They should have annexed everything West to the Suez Canal, cut off all land traffic in and out of Israel and wiped out anyone trying to invade.
They're kidding themselves if they think Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and the rest wouldn't wipe them out if they had the chance.
Islam is at war with Israel. In the Mosques, it's "Kill the Jews, kill the Jews". This goes back to the time Mohammed proposed an alliance with the Jews and was told to take a hike. Up until then, he considered the Jews his spiritual brothers and taught from the Torah. He prayed toward Jerusalem. After he was rejected he sulked, brooded and finally declared the Jews his enemy. They are still regarded as the official main enemy by Islam.
'Course, the Americans aren't far behind because of our support of Israel.

__________________
John
Kanstul Chicago 1070
GR 62M
The Mute Rack!!
http://home.cfl.rr.com/themuterack/
Cape Canaveral

gzent

Ash - strange isn't it?

I don't have a perfect memory so I can't rattle off the specifics. However,
when Israel had taken Gaza (1973?) and agreed to a UN cease fire there were conditions on both Israel and the Palestinians. Since the conditions negotiated by the UN for Israel's withdrawal were never met Israel stayed put.

The UN is a big waste of time. They get involved with conflicts without the longterm commitment to see things through. They negotiate cease fires, borders, governement changes and so on, but when the countries involved ignore their side of the deal then things quickly degrade. Well, people criticize Bush, but I think the US has had it with spineless UN negotitaors telling us how to apply diplomacy.

People whine about Israel without understanding the mess the UN has made of the situation with their pointless treaties.

Greg

__________________
Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation