Bottom Spring Valves are Really Nice - Page 2

Firestas'1 · 04-23-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowuk

I used to have a Selmer 4 valved picc with bottom sprung valves - worst valves that I have ever owned.
Most of the bottom sprung valves that I am aware of, have shorter piston surface than comparable top sprung models and this would be inferior in terms of being "tight" and in terms of leverage and wear. Remember, our fingers do not push the valves down straight and this skew causes valves to wear unevenly and sometimes bind.

If Brett Getzen is around, he can probably give us an objective manufacturers opinion!
Old Lou shares my feelings about plastic guides. I have never had a trumpet with "audible" metal guides and they are much more durable

I agree wit the comments about the plastic guides.
Maybe someone could come up with some retrofit kits for popular horns to replace the guides with metal?
I'd be first in line for that modification!

The Heralder · 05-02-2008, 10:25 PM

I have a 1938 Holton Ideal with bottom sprung valves and a Conn Victor cornet that are both a joy to play. The only downside is that while you are playing them is that you can hear what seems to be the spring scraping along something in the valve casing, but nobody else can hear it.

Matt Funamura · 05-07-2008, 02:40 AM

I have a Yamaha YFH 6310z flugelhorn and it too has bottom spring valves. It was fine until I swapped the bottom caps to heavy ones. The springs sort of "clip" to the bottom caps and the heavy ones well, don't have anything to clip to. So it took some tinkering around to make the springs stay put. Silly me, I just needed the horn to slot correctly

.

I'll ask a related question though, has anyone had any specific problems with outside-mounted top sprung valves? I have a Calicchio that I just bought a couple of weeks ago and they all have this valve design.

Matt

MFfan · 05-07-2008, 09:03 AM

My old Besson trumpet has outside top springs. I have had the horn a couple of years. As part of replacing the valve assemblies with Besson 2-20 used replacements, same old plastic guides, new pads and springs from TheBandRoom. The aligning process took me a long time to figure out. What finished it off turned out to be a stretching of the springs to provide more compression and Viola! the horn opened up and plays great! Have no problems with that design, as such. My other old ones mostly have botton sprung valves, which I like, also. It seems a lot easier to work with the springs when they are on the outside of everything.

Regarding the comment on the bottom sprung springs anchoring, I am reminded those on my Czech trumpet are just loose and not anchored to the bottom caps and sometimes seem to get off center and then the valve doesn't come up until you manually pull it up and push it down again. Will have to work on that.

oldlou · 05-07-2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFfan

My old Besson trumpet has outside top springs. I have had the horn a couple of years. As part of replacing the valve assemblies with Besson 2-20 used replacements, same old plastic guides, new pads and springs from TheBandRoom. The aligning process took me a long time to figure out. What finished it off turned out to be a stretching of the springs to provide more compression and Viola! the horn opened up and plays great! Have no problems with that design, as such. My other old ones mostly have botton sprung valves, which I like, also. It seems a lot easier to work with the springs when they are on the outside of everything.

Regarding the comment on the bottom sprung springs anchoring, I am reminded those on my Czech trumpet are just loose and not anchored to the bottom caps and sometimes seem to get off center and then the valve doesn't come up until you manually pull it up and push it down again. Will have to work on that.

Some Conn's and perhaps others have come from the factory with conical shaped valve springs. These compress within their own coil, keeping the springs in place and they also cannot touch the casing walls, thus eliminating that scraping sound.

OLDLOU>>

gchun · 05-07-2008, 01:14 PM

One downside I can see to bottom sprung valves has nothing to do with the valve action. Taking a bottom cap off quickly to remove excess spit/moisture can be more of a challenge with bottom sprung valves.

Garry

oldlou · 05-07-2008, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gchun

One downside I can see to bottom sprung valves has nothing to do with the valve action. Taking a bottom cap off quickly to remove excess spit/moisture can be more of a challenge with bottom sprung valves.

Garry

If the bottom cap is removed cautiously, and at your leisure prior to an engagement, and wiped out, the moisture will not build up, unless the valve is worn out. Snuggly fitted valves do not seep moisture. In any case, the reason for the hole in the bottom cap is to allow an airflow into and out of the valve casing as the valve is manipulated up and down and also to allow valve water leakage to have an exit hole. I have never dropped a bottom cap to drain water from a valve while in concert. I have just not found a need to do so. If you find that it is nessecary, check the compression of your valves. They just might need to be replated and lapped back in.

OLDLOU>>

Matt Funamura · 05-07-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gchun

One downside I can see to bottom sprung valves has nothing to do with the valve action. Taking a bottom cap off quickly to remove excess spit/moisture can be more of a challenge with bottom sprung valves.

Garry

Yeah I have to agree with that. I've almost given up with that on my flugel.

05-02-2008, 10:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
The Heralder New Friend Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sterling Mass Posts: 3	Re: Bottom Spring Valves are Really Nice I have a 1938 Holton Ideal with bottom sprung valves and a Conn Victor cornet that are both a joy to play. The only downside is that while you are playing them is that you can hear what seems to be the spring scraping along something in the valve casing, but nobody else can hear it.

05-07-2008, 02:40 AM	#13 (permalink)
Matt Funamura New Friend Join Date: May 2008 Location: Boston/Sacramento Posts: 22	Re: Bottom Spring Valves are Really Nice I have a Yamaha YFH 6310z flugelhorn and it too has bottom spring valves. It was fine until I swapped the bottom caps to heavy ones. The springs sort of "clip" to the bottom caps and the heavy ones well, don't have anything to clip to. So it took some tinkering around to make the springs stay put. Silly me, I just needed the horn to slot correctly. I'll ask a related question though, has anyone had any specific problems with outside-mounted top sprung valves? I have a Calicchio that I just bought a couple of weeks ago and they all have this valve design. Matt Last edited by Matt Funamura; 05-07-2008 at 02:47 AM.

05-07-2008, 09:03 AM	#14 (permalink)
MFfan Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 709	Re: Bottom Spring Valves are Really Nice My old Besson trumpet has outside top springs. I have had the horn a couple of years. As part of replacing the valve assemblies with Besson 2-20 used replacements, same old plastic guides, new pads and springs from TheBandRoom. The aligning process took me a long time to figure out. What finished it off turned out to be a stretching of the springs to provide more compression and Viola! the horn opened up and plays great! Have no problems with that design, as such. My other old ones mostly have botton sprung valves, which I like, also. It seems a lot easier to work with the springs when they are on the outside of everything. Regarding the comment on the bottom sprung springs anchoring, I am reminded those on my Czech trumpet are just loose and not anchored to the bottom caps and sometimes seem to get off center and then the valve doesn't come up until you manually pull it up and push it down again. Will have to work on that. __________________ Dave Rafferty 07 Barrington Trumpet, 1972 Reynolds Medalist 55 Besson 8-10 trumpet 55 Roth by Reynolds Cornet 73 Olds Ambassador Cornet 30's Czech small bore Trumpet Getzen 80 cornet, 33 American Standard cornet 66 Olds Ambassador Trumpet www.kalamazooconcertband.org Last edited by MFfan; 05-07-2008 at 09:09 AM. Reason: additional comment

05-07-2008, 01:14 PM	#16 (permalink)
gchun Pianissimo User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 125	Re: Bottom Spring Valves are Really Nice One downside I can see to bottom sprung valves has nothing to do with the valve action. Taking a bottom cap off quickly to remove excess spit/moisture can be more of a challenge with bottom sprung valves. Garry

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