Veldkamp

I played on a Calicchio build in 1947. It sure played nice and looked nice to. It had the same "rails" on the 1st and 3rd valve like Bach has.

It played much like Larry discribed, open, probably L bore with the sizzle, probably thin bell.

Larry Gianni

Cory,

Send me a serial number on the 1s/4 . A #4 pipe is not a normal pipe Dom. offered on a regular basis, plus DC didn't start numbering his pipes until the 60's, before that time he just had different pipes that the customer tried and decided on or pipes he would hand alter to make them play in different ways.

I'll have to ask Dave at Calicchio about a #4 pipe , but during my tenure , I don't think a single #4 was made, like the #8 pipe. Also , it may have been altered to play better over the years by DC.

The #3 ,2,7 and 9 pipes seemed , by most players , to be the best of the 10 DC made over the years so they eventually became the most popular and the ones player's gravitated to.

For a while in the 60's a 2 bell and a #5 pipe seemed to start to get a foothold on " favorite combo " status , but then faded. Alot of the Basie personnel and small group/combo players of the time liked the 2/5 combo, for what it's worth.

Also, check the bottom of the second valve casing. Dominic would stamp a " S " their for a trumpet that was made special for someone with either a " L " or " B " bell or custom leadpipe or both.

LG

Walt Johnson had a #3 pipe made and altered by Dominic in the late 60's and Dominic stamped with a " backward facing 3 ... like an E " . Dominic told Walt that was to signify it was an " ESPECIAL " leadpipe " just for him.

Trumpet Player

Does anyone know what was the model numbers (leadpipe/bell/bore) of that Calicchio horn that Jerry Callet brought to Maynard at that concert?

The one he sounded better on and played through part of the show?

I heard this story and always wondered if it was true. And now that I hear it is a true story I wonder which horn Maynard was testing out.

Anyone know? Larry?

Thanks.

Larry Gianni

The Calicchio that was brought to Maynard by Jerry was a LB with a 3B ( bronze ) bell and what would be considered a 2L pipe.

A 2L pipe has the same venturi opening a Martin #3 LB and Besson Meha ( .452 ) , both favorite trumpets of Maynard's

Quick Maynard trumpet history lesson:

Maynard's decision to go with Holton to produce his line was based on a couple of factors. After leaving Kenton in the late 50's , (Maynard played a custom Conn 38B alot with Kenton along with the Martin #3 and Calicchio )playing first in the contract orchestra at 20th century fox and then eventually , as we all know , in the early 60's leading his own big band. with the volume needed to front a big band, Maynard played the Martin #3 LB, Besson Meha and a Calicchio made for him in 1954 by Dominic ( Pete Ferguson still has the Calicchio )during this time in the 60's.

OK , having said that , in 1970 , with Maynard's raising popularity , Maynard started looking for a company to produce and market a " Maynard " line . Eldon Benge was the making the closet trumpet to a Besson at the time but was a small shop in Burbank, Ca. , that was also true with Calicchio being too small to handle this sort of thing, but Holton had just acquired the Martin Company ( with Leblanc ) and Maynard felt that they could not only best re-produce the Martin #3 LB of old having the original mandrills , but was a very big company that could promote this new line ... Holton was making " designer ' trumpets at the time with the Brisbois , Gozzo , Al Hirt and later the Stahl trumpets ... they could pay him a fee and also had the ability to mass produce and market a "Maynard Mouthpiece " which Benge and Calicchio would not be able to offer ... ( Maynard was playing his own English made mouthpiece model " The Ferguson / Bell Inc. - FBI unlimited" model, it was the one shown on the MF 1 album cover and had step down groves on the outer blank. It was based on the Giardinelli MF1 that Bob Giardinelli had made Maynard in the early 60's before he had his front teeth capped.

In the early to mid 70's ,while playing with his big band , it wasn't uncommon to see Maynard playing live with either the Besson or Martin , even thou the "Holton Maynard Model " was being produced and available to the public. I guess it took a while to get it just right.

The rest is " trumpet history " as they say.

Larry

Footnote -

Arturo also get's a 5 figure yearly stipend from Holton ( LeBlanc ) for endorsing and playing the Sandoval model . Good businessman. Contrary to Arturo's situation, Wayne Bergeron actually bought his own personnel Kanstul WB1600 ( discounted ) and made no arrangements to ever get any fee's or royalty associated with his name being used with the trumpet.

Hu-Yah

Vessehune

OK LARRY. You need to write a book with all these cool trumpet tid bits you know. I find all of your stories about the greats facinating, and I'm sure others do as well!! :)

Trumpet Player

Hey Larry:

Thanks so much! You really know your stuff! I'm sure Maynard sounded great on it! I wish I was there to hear it!

Great info thanks!

Regarding the Meha Besson. I thought the label 'Meha" for Besson was a modern label they put on their horns. They called their models "Meha's" in the late 1950's?

I thought it was a newer fancy title not an original name. I have the book
20th century brass musical instruments in the US by Richard Dundas.

It's a interesting read and Calicchio company is in there as well.
It says the Besson under Boosey and Hawkes in 1983's new line was under a new label "The Meha" but its not too clear as to if the name Meha was always with the models that Besson made.

Anyway I thought I'd ask you because you sure know your historical facts.

Thanks again Larry. If you get a chance check out my question I posted under "Calicchio Bells-Which one is right for me?". I'm curious about the Calicchio #3 bell and it has come up again in this thread as well.

It's nice to have someone with your knowledge available on here. :wink:

Larry Gianni

Ok, here’s a quick French Besson History lesson. Most of this was learned from Zig Kanstul, Hal Oringer, Dave Rodgers and Robb Stewart , all names everyone should know and all very respected people and un-official historian’s of the French Besson saga.

The Besson’s you are thinking of are the replica’s made by Zig Kanstul for the Boosey and Hawks Company starting in 1983 / 84 using original mandrills, saved from the Nazi’s in WW II by French Besson employee’s after the purchase of the Besson name by the English company following a fire that put the French company out of business. The Kanstul copies (they say Kanstul on the bottom of the second valve casing and use 4 digit serial numbers) named the Brevete (.460 bore) and the Meha (.470 bore). The Meha was named for the grand-daughter of Madame Besson.

OK , here we go … most players refer to original Besson’s as either pre-war or post war French Besson’s ( of course we are speaking of WW II and the occupation of France by Nazi forces that severely limited production of the French Bessons for approx. 5 years )

There is a gap of SN#’s between approx. 88,000 and 92,000. Fr. Besson Meha’s, .470 bore start at the 92,000 mark (circa 1945)

Form here on out, we’ll refer to only original French Besson, not copies.

Besson Brevete’s were the trumpet of choice for most of the top trumpet players in the US since the 1920’s. Both classical and commercial players used Besson’s. The Besson Brevete’ ( .460 ) was the only model , for all intents and purposes, at the time offered by Besson. When WWII started, Carl Fischer Musical Instruments lobbied Congress to actually ban the French product from importation because of the Nazi occupation. This conveniently gave the trumpets made by Carl Fischer little foreign competition. Because of the vast use of Besson’s thou, the importation of trumpet parts was allowed for repairing purposes only, tariff or boycott free. The only condition put of Besson was that each piece/part had to be stamped with the make , model and “ Besson “ stamped into the brass and the bells would be stamped with “Fabrication “on them to signify they were for repair purposes only.

During the war a man named “ Rappawana “who lived in NY got the great idea to fill the Besson trumpet void the idea to import parts that were to be used for repair and build Bessons in the US. With the help of a NY repairman by the name of Marchione (sp?) that’s exactly what he did. At this point, the .470 bore Meha’s were introduced in Europe and with the help of Rappawana, so did the states (Besson did not know or would have approved of this arraignment)
, during this time, happened to need a new bell and all that was available was a Meha bell, a Meha bell was installed on a Brevete’ body, so came about the rare .460 bore Besson Meha. It’s rare trumpet model (, 460 bore Meha) of opportunity and circumstance. Again, serial numbers start the authenticate Besson Meha’s at 92,000. The most valued Meha’s are number from 92,000 to 100,000 . After 100,000, the Besson Meha’s were being built in London, with the infamous London Valve casing (something like the Yamaha/Schilke valves of the 1980 that gave player so much trouble) and the different brass that the London Bessson’s used.

It is said, the French Besson’s, post-war, used left over mortar shell casing from the War that littered the landscape. ( plus there was a great shortage of brass and other metals in post war France ) and with the heat of the explosion or the shell, plus the annealing used to forge bells and leadpipe, it’s said , this brass gave the Besson’s made in France there distinctive sound, and feel.

Brevete means “ Patented “ in French and the parts sent during the war time , the second valve casing had “ decote “ stamped on it which means “ tax ( tariff ) free “ which signified to US Custom’s that it was exempt from “ the French Product Legislation “

A .470 bore trumpet was a breath of fresh air for commercial player ( also classical player used them ) who needed much more room than the “ peashooter “ sound and feel that seemed to be losing it's luster , plus parts are getting higher and louder with the Big Bands of Herman, Barnett, etc and eventually Kenton, the day of the Conn 22B ( and the like ) were ending.

Here’s the irony to the Besson story:

The war situation with the large company Besson and the quality problems of the giant US instrument manufacture such as Conn and Frank Holton gave an opportunity to small trumpet makers , who started copying Besson’s closely because for there popularity , to grab small part of the trumpet market.

These small companies, whose owners usually did a lot of the work had names like Vincent Bach, Eldon Benge, Dominick Calicchio and Rudy Muck and F.E.Olds.

Now, Bach would be considered the industry leader like Besson was in it's heyday and small trumpet companies are comming up to fill a void left by certain aspects of Bach's line a quality. Think about it.

Trumpet Trivia:

Harry Glantz played a Rudy Muck trumpet for most of his career and was the first player to put his name on a “player endorsed“trumpet mouthpiece. ( Holton had just left Rudy Muck’s employ to start his own company was asked to produce the “ Harry Glantz “ line of mouthpieces. His name was Dominick Calicchio and he produced the mouthpieces for 2 years, until demand proved overwhelming for the small company and Conn started to product them and then eventually Charles Colin made the last series of “Glantz “mouthpieces.

Dominick , while under the employ of Rudy Muck, made a , uniquely designed , high note , first mouthpiece. Dominick , under his won name , also made Maynard a mouthpiece in the early 50’s and the original lead templates , used by Dominick to make a record to the shape of the rim, cup and backbore are now in a drawer in Tulsa.

The Rudy Muck/ Calicchio mouthpiece was used as the basis of the MF ( 50's Kenton High Note Trumpet Player ) mouthpiece offered by Florida Big Band leader / trumpet player Dan McMillion , using GR mouthpieces as the mouhtpiece suppliers, named "Groovin High I and II".

LG

Hope this helped.

Trumpet Player

Thanks Larry!

I'm in awe of your depth of knowledge!

I wouldn't remember half of the stuff you know.

Thank you so much for schooling me and everyone else on here!

Whenever you get a chance check out the
"Calicchio Bells-Which One Is Right For Me" thread.

Thanks again Larry for the info.


[color=red]Trpt Player: When you want to learn something in detail or something that really interests you an you always want to learn more, try this approach

1) Do ask much on your own about finding out about whatever your interested in , no matter how trivial. With the Internet, there are no excuses for being ignorant on a topic yo find fascinating.

2) When your in the company of someone who does know what he's talking about , don't try to impress them with what you know, just sit back an listen ... if your thinking about what your going to say, then your not listening

3) When you get a chance , use what you know a ask a very " narrow " question about the topic that maybe only this person can help with.

Questions like ... What's the best trumpet ? , How high do you have to play to be a lead player? , Who's the loudest trumpet player ? or any of those unanswerable, rhetorical, silly question's usually is a " turn-off " for anyone who's been in the trench's on a subject that interests you. Remember, do as much homework as you can on your own, it shows the person your asking a question that your worth the effort to help answer your question in detail. remember, bull-shitters are a dime a dozen , the real deal is hard to come by, so take advantage of the opportunity.

So why don't we start by you telling me what you think about a Calicchio #3 bell and we will take it form there, OK - Oh, by the way, there are many more people in the world that you should be in " awe " about ... I shouldn't even make the list. But, thank you, everyone likes to hear what they can contribute is appreciated now and again

Larry

Please don't copy the new Calicchio website descriptions - I wrote those for John. ... Pop Quiz on Tuesday , now go practice.

Trumpet Player

Hi Larry:

I sent you a PM message.

I didn't try the #3, just a 1s/7 and a 1s/2 years ago at a New York brass conference. Chris and Irma were there and they were such nice people.

I didn't try the #3. I don't know why I'm sure they had one there.
A conference is the worst place to try a horn at with everyone around you being an idiot and trying to play higher and louder than the next guy in the huge ballroom at the hotel Rossevelt.

I heard the conference is held somewhere upstate now. I haven't gone since.

Since then I have tried out a few 1s/7's and a few 1s/2's on a few different occasions, but their was never a #3 belled Calicchio in stock at the time.

Check you inbox Larry and thanks again man. I appreciate you input.

And ahh here it goes: the #3, it's bigger, it's darker, it's wider, Freddie Hubberd used or uses it! How was that!!! HA HA HA!!!

Well I know I gotta go back and practice. Back to the woodshed!

By the way when I say "in awe" I mean you seem like a guy that is more than a history or horn/gear buff, you really live and breathe this stuff, so I really appreciate that more than if you were the type of moderator that just gave a few facts but no detailed insider backround info which you seem to have a lot of. So thanks Larry.

Back to my woodsheding catch you soon!

natural slider

My first post- just want to say that both Jimmy Maxwell and John Coppolla
told me the best horns they ever played were a Callichio
sb