trpguyy

If we knew how many hours per week are put in at the Schilke factory we would know how many hours it takes to build a horn, assuming of course that the 20-25 horns/week is true.

theoldmaz

No, we wouldn't! Even if we had access to the payroll records, and knew the total hours/week, you cannot assume every horn is completed in a uniform manner, that there are no rejects, no valve casings judged defective, no bells that break when being bent, no finished horns that end up as scrap because of a buffing accident, no plated horns that aren't scratched or dented in final assembly and have to be completely redone. I think you're forgeting we're not making golf balls, but rather a highly fragile and delicate instrument that must look good, play great and work flawlessly.

trpguyy

If anything, we'd have a larger number than the actual figure. You said that about 20-25 Schilkes are made per week. Average that out, we get 22.5. Take the average number of hours per week, divde that by the 22.5, and we have an average number of hours put into each horn. I'm not talking about taking the number of hours from one week, I'm talking about the average of say, a year. Regardless, Schilke's don't have 45 hours of work put into them. That would mean at least $1,800 of labor alone.

DrunkIQ

Well,

This got a little off the orginal subject... the orginal question was how hand built the horns are, not the economics involved in buildig them. We do not have access to this information and it is a mood point to discuss it.

Let's get back on course here. Those that have toured the factory may have some good information on this.

From their pictures on the web site it does show small part being machined. The only outside things that come up on the loyalist site is that the beryllium bronze bells are electroformed at Andersons, but I surmise that they are rough due to several things pointed out about destroying them when trying to fit them. It is mentioned that bells have been spun down for custom weights, etc which allude to this... From my past experiences, anytime I have had to order parts (tuning slides, caps, bell, etc) they have had to be made.

I would say that the theoldmaz is right on the money...

-marc

SchilkeFan

You say that 45 hours of work into each horn equates to at least $1,800 in labor alone??? That comes out to $40 per hour for labor and, based on a 2,000 hour work year, would mean the average employee at Schilke is bringing home $80 large per annum. Now that's what I would call a dream gig!

Obviously I'm being facetious. The take home pay would certainly be less because every employee would have to pay taxes and Andrew Naumann must get a cut as well! I wonder how Schilke's payroll stacks up against Monette's...

John MacGregor
Waukesha, WI

dcstep

$40 per hour includes about $10 per hour of benefits, so the annual cash compensation to the assembly employees would be 2,080 hours times $30 per hour, which would be $62,400. That seems high for the average employee. If you include the helpers cleaning the shop and early apprentices, the average is probably more like $40,000. Thus, $40,000/2080=19.23+10(benefits)=29.23 times 45hr = 1,315 leaving very little room for materials, marketing and profit margin.

It's apparent that no one is going to reveal an accurate number.

Back to the original topic, how hand made are Schilkes? About the same as the other name brands, EXCEPT they don't use assembly jigs. They are NOT the only ones in this category, but that would be a difference as compared to Bach and Conn, for instance. Most horns are "hand made", but Schilke uses a more time consuming process that minimizes building stress into the instruments. Each Schilke IS NOT a "custom" trumpet just because they're put together without an assembly jig.

Dave

__________________
Schilke '60 B1
Selmer Paris -- '57 #20 K-Modified/
'03 Concept TT w/ GR66.8B2.8
'94 Lawler TL cornet w/ Sparx 2B
Conn Vintage One flugel - GR66FD
www.pitpops.com www.ucm-inc.com
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

DrunkIQ

In regards to custom vs. regular Schilkes....

There is no regular Schilke.

All Schilkes ARE custom made. Schilke does have a set of standard configurations (B1, B2, B3, etc) that can be ordered. These configurations are combinatons of bore sizes and bell configurations that they feel work best together through the years of their R&D. Keep in mind that you could call up and order a 4 vavle Bb or somthing crazy.

-marc

trpguyy

This depends on your definition of the word "custom." If by custom you mean a horn that is very well put together with excellent quality control, then every Schilke is custom. But my (soon to be) Schilke X3 from "the store" is just as custom as my large bore Bach. Both can be bought from the same store and taken home, no questions asked. Just because something can be custom ordered from the factory does not mean that all of the horns are custom. Not all Schilkes are made-to-order (by the customer).

dcstep

I agree with trpguyy, a "custom" horn is made to specific criteria that is NOT a standard configuration. A B1 with a four-valve valve block would be "custom" or "made to order" while a B1 or B6 would not be.

Hand assembly does NOT make a horn custom. I'm not aware of any trumpets that are assembled by robots. Some makers use CNC equipment to repeatably make certain parts (pistons, for instance). I happen to think that might improve quality, but if you want to argue against that premise it's fine, but you'll have to agree that most trumpets are hand assembled. The assembly methods and skills of the assemblers and QC do indeed vary from maker to maker. I would agree that the assemblers at Schilke have EARNED a reputation of being among the best.

Schilke IS NOT the only high quality horn maker, BUT I'd say that they're clearly in the 80th to 90th percentile (like all builders, they've had glitches).

Dave

__________________
Schilke '60 B1
Selmer Paris -- '57 #20 K-Modified/
'03 Concept TT w/ GR66.8B2.8
'94 Lawler TL cornet w/ Sparx 2B
Conn Vintage One flugel - GR66FD
www.pitpops.com www.ucm-inc.com
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

joe brown

For those on the Schilke forum that want to talk to the master about Schilke trumpets I have a suspicion that you are talking to the master Ren Schilke. So I wouldn't be so quick in saying that the OLDMAZ doesn't know what he is talking about. I have 4 Schilkes now and they are the best.