John Hagstrom about heavywall trumpets.. - Page 3

gms979 · 06-18-2006, 11:59 PM

ebtromba,

Underpants gnomes episode, right?

ebtromba · 06-19-2006, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebtromba

1. get some trumpets in the keys you want. get some mouthpieces.
2. ????
3. Profit

Quote:

Originally Posted by gms979

ROGERIO,

Underpants gnomes episode, right?

That was me...

glad someone got the reference.

gms979 · 06-19-2006, 02:30 AM

oops, my bad ebtromba!

what a great episode, though!

later on,
greg

B15M · 06-19-2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trumpetchad

So that I don't risk offending anyone here, please know that I have a huge amount of respect for trumpet players who perform in full-time symphony orchestras. It's a job I want some day.

That being said...

I would agree that the sound must come from inside a player's head, however, it's my opinion that whatever trumpet we play (heavy or light), we should allow it to do more work for us than against us. For me, that means playing a lighter trumpet. Just as a carpenter wants to use the best and most efficient tools he has in his toolbox, I want the same for my trumpet when I open the case, and I don't even for a second take my trumpet for granted.

I think I've said it before on one of the trumpet web sites that at the end of a Mahler Symphony when I'm already feeling exhausted, I certainly want the trumpet to resonate with the least amount of effort possible from my end. To me, the lighter the better, because it's about physics -- the less metal to vibrate, the faster the response, and the less effort I have to exert to play at the loudest volumes. Could it be that this idea (of light better than heavy) is only in my head? Perhaps, but from experience, the lighter trumpets way out perform the heavier ones.

This might rustle a few feathers here, but likewise, at the end of a Mahler symphony, I'm thinking less (or not at all) about "air" or "pressure" or "posture" or whatever -- I'm thinking about making it to the end, and doing whatever it takes to get there. And I find that a lighter weight trumpet helps me achieve that goal to a better degree.

When I went to a heavier trumpet I was thinking the same way as you. I think the lighter trumpet is easier for you because you hear yourself playing more then you do on the heavier trumpet. You hit the nail on the head when you talked about the metal vibrating more. If you had the time to work on using a heavier trumpet for a while you might find that you would get used to what you are hearing and not have to work at all.

I was playing before rehearsal the other night warming up along with every one else. I was playing on the soft side and at break some people were talking with me and commented on what I was playing. I was surprised that any one heard me and they told me they heard it out in the hallway while they were coming in.

Veldkamp · 06-19-2006, 01:01 PM

Still for a section player or lead player a heavy trumpet isn't an option. You have to have enough feedback otherwise you will outplay everyone in the band. I don't know a well known lead player player on a heavy trumpet. Even Monette developed lighter instruments for Maynard and Patrick Hession (and they sound great on it.)

B15M · 06-19-2006, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veldkamp

Still for a section player or lead player a heavy trumpet isn't an option. You have to have enough feedback otherwise you will outplay everyone in the band. I don't know a well known lead player player on a heavy trumpet. Even Monette developed lighter instruments for Maynard and Patrick Hession (and they sound great on it.)

There was a guy playing on Broadway, Ravi Best. I saw him in two shows playing lead and he sounded great. He was playing a rather heavy Monette.

One of the shows was Swing. That had a lot of big band stuff and some nice trumpet solo stuff. The thing that impressed me most was his sound. Big huge lead sound and when he played a slow solo the tone was like a symphony player. Seeing that show was one of the reasons I bought a Monette.

Veldkamp · 06-19-2006, 06:20 PM

The B993 is a nice horn and sounded great, but it wasn't as good as my Bach Mt.Vernon for my lead work. If I would have played more solo work, I would have kept it.

Scott Apelgren · 06-20-2006, 09:44 AM

I recently had a talented former student come in to try out some horns. We had quite a variety. He tried everything from a Yamaha Z and Artist NY model to BAch 37's, Getzen Customs and Lawlers. There was one heavyweight model in the mix. He did a blind test for me: he played I listened. While I could say one horn might be a little brighter or more edgy that another there was only one horn that I could immediately identify. The heavyweight.

This tells me that it might not be the best choice for blending in a section. As for the soft playing comments, If Wynton's sound on the "20th Century" CD is an indication of soft playing on a heavy horn, I'll take the lighter horn. Please understand I AM NOT SLAMMING HIS PLAYING AT ALL! He is a monster. I just found on that particular CD anytime his volume dropped below a good MF I hear more air than tone and I know Wynton can play soft!

The sound I hear from most heavier horns is just not the sound I grew up wanting to match. It is not the sound on the classic albums like the Gabrielli recording or Doc's 60's + 70's recordings or Gil Johnson or Vacchiano playing Mahler or Herseth plaing almost anything or MF's Live at Jimmy's, Chet Baker, Blue Mitchell..............the list is endless. And so will this debate be, I'm sure!

uatrmpt · 06-20-2006, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Apelgren

The sound I hear from most heavier horns is just not the sound I grew up wanting to match. It is not the sound on the classic albums like the Gabrielli recording or Doc's 60's + 70's recordings or Gil Johnson or Vacchiano playing Mahler or Herseth plaing almost anything or MF's Live at Jimmy's, Chet Baker, Blue Mitchell..............the list is endless. And so will this debate be, I'm sure!

You make a great point about the sound you grew up wanting to emulate. For a lot of people around my age and younger (I'm 23) the trumpeter that wowed us was Wynton. His is a sound I like and would love to have, although I strive for a more pure sound.

Mzony · 06-20-2006, 01:34 PM

I dig your point...BUT ALL of your mentioned people have very different sounds and approach the instrument very differently.

06-19-2006, 01:01 PM	#25 (permalink)
Veldkamp Piano User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 379	Still for a section player or lead player a heavy trumpet isn't an option. You have to have enough feedback otherwise you will outplay everyone in the band. I don't know a well known lead player player on a heavy trumpet. Even Monette developed lighter instruments for Maynard and Patrick Hession (and they sound great on it.) __________________ www.erikveldkamp.com http://trumpetkings.blogspot.com

06-19-2006, 06:20 PM	#27 (permalink)
Veldkamp Piano User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 379	The B993 is a nice horn and sounded great, but it wasn't as good as my Bach Mt.Vernon for my lead work. If I would have played more solo work, I would have kept it. __________________ www.erikveldkamp.com http://trumpetkings.blogspot.com

06-20-2006, 09:44 AM	#28 (permalink)
Scott Apelgren New Friend Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 19	I recently had a talented former student come in to try out some horns. We had quite a variety. He tried everything from a Yamaha Z and Artist NY model to BAch 37's, Getzen Customs and Lawlers. There was one heavyweight model in the mix. He did a blind test for me: he played I listened. While I could say one horn might be a little brighter or more edgy that another there was only one horn that I could immediately identify. The heavyweight. This tells me that it might not be the best choice for blending in a section. As for the soft playing comments, If Wynton's sound on the "20th Century" CD is an indication of soft playing on a heavy horn, I'll take the lighter horn. Please understand I AM NOT SLAMMING HIS PLAYING AT ALL! He is a monster. I just found on that particular CD anytime his volume dropped below a good MF I hear more air than tone and I know Wynton can play soft! The sound I hear from most heavier horns is just not the sound I grew up wanting to match. It is not the sound on the classic albums like the Gabrielli recording or Doc's 60's + 70's recordings or Gil Johnson or Vacchiano playing Mahler or Herseth plaing almost anything or MF's Live at Jimmy's, Chet Baker, Blue Mitchell..............the list is endless. And so will this debate be, I'm sure! __________________ Scott Apelgren The Horn Section Melbourne, FL

06-20-2006, 01:34 PM	#30 (permalink)
Mzony Pianissimo User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 75	I dig your point...BUT ALL of your mentioned people have very different sounds and approach the instrument very differently. __________________ Zony

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06-18-2006, 11:59 PM	#21 (permalink)
gms979 New Friend Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17	ebtromba, Underpants gnomes episode, right?

06-19-2006, 02:30 AM	#23 (permalink)
gms979 New Friend Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17	oops, my bad ebtromba! what a great episode, though! later on, greg

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