Flugelnut

Some people on this thread have used the term "resonating" in relation to brass instruments and trumpets in particular.
I'm confused by this and would like somebody to explain, e.g. which part(s) of a trumpet are supposed to resonate.
I can understand the resonating function of the body of a violin or a guitar but fail to see something similar in a trumpet.
Without claiming to fully understand brass accoustics, I'm led to think ( by Mr. Benade et al) that the trumpet is a tube that encloses a standing wave, and that only a fraction of the energy that the player puts in is emitted as the sound we hear.
Any resonation would be a further loss of energy and have no function at all, or at best a very minor one.
Please enlighten me!

Heavens2kadonka

Lightly tap the bell of your trumpet with your fingernail. THATS resonance.

When you play a note, a resonant horn will leave a slight ring after the note is released. Some good examples of a well-resounding horn is the Bach Strad and the Kanstul.

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What affects resonance? (Shoot, its what affects almost everything on the horn!)

Answer: THE BRACING

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Heavy braced horns, like the Phaeton, do not have much of a ring. Rather, the sound is more rounded, warm. Lightly braced horns, like the Zeus Olympus, ring like a tuning fork.

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NOW, there are other factors that affect the resonance of the trumpet.

Bore size: Larger bore trumpet bells require more air to create the ring. Some people may find the bigger bore's too fluffy or diffuse in sound. Some people require larger feel. Don't knock it till you try it.

Bell Flare: Also known as the "throat" of the bell. Some bells are more open in the end, some are tighter. My Kanstul 1503 has a more "C"- shaped throat, while my Bach has a more "V." The Kanstul seems to have a darker, airier ring, while the Bach has a tighter, more sharp ring.

Bell Rim: The wire around the edge. Thinner wire is known to create a ringier sound. The purpose of the rim is to control the ring of the horn.

There are some rimless bells lurking about, but I have little knowledge about them.

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And thats about it...

Van

trumpet blower88

I was always taught that "resonateing" was basicaly the way the vibrations move down the tubeing of the horn and out the bell. Many people think what makes the sound is the air flowing though the horn, but the sound comes from the vibrations resonateing thoughout the tubeing. Kanstul makes their horns out of very high quality material so that the vibrations can resonate down the leadpipe, bell, ect much easier.
That's what I have learned anyways.

Heavens2kadonka

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I just feel like starting a friendly argument...

Every horn out there has it's own sound when played through correctly. Of course, every players plays differently, so every horn will be interpretted differently. Just throwing that out thar.

IMHO, the top three resonating horns (other than the Stage 1 NY which I place in a league above), are the Yamaha Xeno, the Bach Strad, and the Kanstul 1503.

The Xeno, when rung, is very "hot," and almost hissy feeling, but not too overboard. Its really fun to listen to a REALLY competent player just lay it out on one, let me tell ya!

The Strad, when rung, is smooth, yet sharp. The 42 is much closer to the Xeno is sound, but I think the Xeno is better. I haven't tried the 74 yet. The 37 is right in between.

The Kanstul, when rung, is resonantly dark. Amazing to listen to, though you have to approach it differently because of the more open bell.

I actually plan on trying out some pea-shooter trumpets when I get the chance. Just to see how a smaller trumpet feels, and if I like it!

If you spend time focusing on blowing the horn to its fullest, before expecting it to happen immediately, you will love EVERY horn you play.

You'll also end up a complete geek like me.

Peace out,
Van

Heavens2kadonka

Yes, there is resonance, vibrations throughout the horn as you push wind through it, but most of the action takes place in the bell.

Heck, grab the bottom of the bell while playing a long tone. You'll notice a slight change in the sound. Shoot, grab the bell from the crook up.

When you really play the horn right in the center, you'll feel the WHOLE horn vibrate sympathetically. All (good) trumpets are built to play at 440mhz (I think thats right.... I'm tired, cut me slack!). When you're matching that perfectly, the horn "comes alive."

Try this: Play a G (middle Line). Start blowing it flat (DONT USE LIPS), then sharp. Somewhere in between, you'll notice the horn feels a lot louder, and rings. Thats blowing the center.

Did you know I was a Freshman in college before I knew that?!?!

Van

gzent

Here's what one of the greats, Renold O. Schilke, wrote about trumpets
physics and resonance.

http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Brass%20Clinic.html

One of my favorite stories he gives is this one and the misconception about
bells 'ringing' and projection:


Reading this paper corrected some of the nonsense that I believed early on in my trumpet playing.

Greg

tom turner

Boy, this thread got weird in the last page!

Heavens2kadonka

....I take it I took things too far?

Van

Tootsall

Excessive amplitude, Van. Damp your oscillations a bit. Try some attenuation. (you ARE still studying engineering, aren't you?)

Flugelnut

Thank you all for explaining resonance in a trumpet. I liked the quote from Renold Schilke, and understand from it that resonance is desirable, but in moderation (like most good things).
Apparently the really good horn makers have the instinct, experience, knowledge, or whatever it takes to achieve the right amount of resonance.