dcstep

Agreed, BUT I think a vibrant, centered, resonant tone comes before everything else. Therefore, I'd add tone production to the list.

Dave

__________________
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Selmer Paris -- '57 #20 K-Modified/
'03 Concept TT w/ GR66.8B2.8
'94 Lawler TL cornet w/ Sparx 2B
Conn Vintage One flugel - GR66FD
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rdt1959

"Are you studying with a teacher?"

No, not yet. I am having trouble finding a local teacher with any slots open. But I need to, and in fact am on the waiting list for a couple teachers.


"What is your level of playing?"

What day is it? Consitency is one of my big problems. In general I would but myself on the low end of intermediate.

"Can you play the Arban Charecteristic Studies?"

Only in my dreams! But that is also one of my goals for this year.

"Have you a range that extends from low f# to the c above the staff?"

Yes. Although playing the high C above the staff MUSICALLY is a hit and miss thing (actually, I can high an e above that on a regular basis, but you wouldn't want to listen to it!). Again, one of my goals for the year. To be able to play up there MUSICALLY.

"Are you playing in any ensembles?"

Long story here, but just in the last week we have resurrected our little church band. I am also continuing the hunt for a community band or ensemble.

"I ask these questions because I believe that you must have the mechanics down before you can begin to experience the music."

I absolutely agree with that statement.

__________________
Dick Taylor
Georgia
Comeback Player
Benge 65B

lonelyangel

Wise words from the wise one. FWIW I agree with what Wilmer has been saying - also some interesting and valid points raised by many other posters.

I often use this analogy when starting to teach a new student. Imagine I was a piano teacher with a really promising and talented student. If you can now take a further leap of imagination and suppose that I happened to be very rich and generous. The time would come when I would say to the student, "You have worked really hard and you show great potential. What you really need and deserve now is the best piano that money can buy to practice on every day. Here is a check for $100,000. Go and buy yourself a Steinway Concert Grand and carry on with your studies - have a ball, it's on me"

Faced with a similarly promising trumpet student - I can't help him in the same way at all. The trumpet is just an amplifier for the player - the player produces the sound, not the instrument.

All the best. Noel.

__________________
Noel Langley - Eclipse Artist noel@eclipsetrumpets.com

Eclipse Medium Yellow, scratch gold
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Giardinelli 6S, 6M, 6FL Bach 3CW

Tootsall

I'm disappointed in you, Noel. You didn't mention Boesendorfer! (insert tongue in cheek) More expensive and FAR superior to those crummy Steinway products! (if you like the brighter sound of 'em). :)

BACK OFF, YOU GUYS! I'M ONLY FUNNIN' YA!

trickg

He also didn't mention C. Bechstein or Grotrian pianos, which in some circles are considered to be FAR superior to the famous Steinway, as well as being more expensive.

I think that what we are arguing here is a matter of degrees. A great player is going to be a great player in spite of the equipment they are playing. I seem to recall a story once about how the Canadian Brass were at a musician's convention of some sort (possibly a Tuba convention) and someone made a comment to one of them about sounding the way that they do because they are playing "custom" Yamaha instruments. (weren't they all playing Yamahas at one point?) To prove a point, they went over to the display tables, grabbed some horns, used the mouthpieces that were in the horns, didn't even tune...and the end result was that they sounded EXACTLY like the Canadian Brass that we all know and love.

However, let it also be said that if you are playing an instrument that is of lesser quality than some of the other pro level instruments, if you are a good player, you are still going to sound good, you will still be as musical as you ever were, but you as the player are certainly going to notice the difference in the quality of the instrument and you are going to have to work harder to sound as good as you would on a better horn.

It's a matter of compensation really. A good musician is always going to put their best foot forward, so in order to do that, they are going to have to compensate more for the inequities of a lesser instrument. The end result between the two horns, no matter what the extremes in quality (assuming of course that both horns function mechanically as they should) will be very close to the same.

That's my take on it.

__________________
Patrick Gleason
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JDondero

wiseone2 - first, if you feel I've misunderstood your point, I apologize. I mean no disrespect, I just want to add my $.02.

I'm a little curious - What is your main horn? I'm sure it isn't a student line model, but why isn't it? If you would sound the same, why spend the extra cash?

Student horns are purposely not built to the quality of pro horns in workmanship or materials, so that they are less expensive to produce. Young students need to learn how to handle and care for their horn before they or their parents put out the money for a good horn. My own first horn finally bit the dust after way too much abuse.

I can pick up a student horn and temporarily sound like I do on my XYZ pro horn, But I think if I played that student horn all the time, I would lose my sound (whatever that is ) and develop a new one that works on that horn, despite it's limitations. I would work to try and compensate for it's shortcomings, And it would get harder for me to produce the sound I want.

I should therefore use the horn that LETS me make my sound, as effortlessly as possible, so I am not FORCING the horn to make that sound. This is what a better quality horn will do.

I also think that this applies to the difference between the 'standard' pro horns ( Bach, Yamaha, Schilke, etc..) and the 'super (expensive) horns' such as Monette, Taylor, Eclipse, etc... If one of those horns allows someone (not me) to more easily create the sound that's in their head, and they have the money, they should get one. That gives them one less thing to try to control, and their efforts can be spent on other aspects of performance, making them better players.

I don't think that just because someone plays a certain quality or cost of trumpet, they are a good player or not, just that if it helps them create 'their sound' they will play that horn better in the long run.

FWIW

John D.

MUSICandCHARACTER

It is deeper than just durability and cost. A student horn is built with those two things in mind. But a student horn usually has more resistance and a more even, solid sound. Students need to be able to find the center of the pitch. A good player can find the center and will want to "color it" for a lack of a better term.

Student horns are usually solid, with plenty of resistance for ease of breath control, have smaller mouthpieces for ease of range development. Buying a pro horn for a beginning 6th grader might be very frustrating -- it could take too much air and be hard for the beginner to center.

If you teach and have a pro horn, let a beginning student play your professional horn (especially if it is an open horn). They will have trouble.

Student horns have their purpose. So do professional horns. Much ado about nothing (Ok, must ado about a little bit).

M&C

__________________
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Groovyhorn

So basically it's the best for every trumpetplayer to play the most easiest trumpet there is on the market. That could be the Yamaha Bobby Shew trumpet. Because you sound the same on every trumpet it doesn't matter. How could it be that a lot of pro's are using Bach trumpets? They are not the easiest trumpets to play. They better play a Z-horn I think.
Wilmer as I read you're a Bach player also, can you please explain.

JackD

I agree with wiseone, the player does make the sound, but I also agree with some of the other posters - I am used to a ML bore trumpet, and I have tried playing very large bore trumpets in the past, and I had a lot of trouble keeping a steady nice-sounding note on them. It sounded like me, but me struggling to play a big trumpet.

dcstep

I'm not sure where you're headed Groovyhorn, but I'd like to dispute your allegation that the Z-horn is the "easiest" to play. I played one for about 3-years so I know its characteristics. It's got great dynamics, but little resonant feedback to the player.

Many players CANNOT adjust to the Z's slippery slotting and they overblow it. Not that I'd ever actually buy a Bach 180/37, but they are very easy to play with very solid slotting and fine intonation. They're too resistant for my taste, but they fit a lot of people. If I hadn't started playing on a large-bore horn at 13, I might be a bigger fan of the Bach. The Z's intonation can be dicey on the D above high-C and the E above high-C was very flat on my horn and in the octave below.


What's easiest is going to play is going to vary from player to player, which is a big part of this discussion. Some horns are "magic" for some players.

Dave

__________________
Schilke '60 B1
Selmer Paris -- '57 #20 K-Modified/
'03 Concept TT w/ GR66.8B2.8
'94 Lawler TL cornet w/ Sparx 2B
Conn Vintage One flugel - GR66FD
www.pitpops.com www.ucm-inc.com
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest