Heavens2kadonka

The Monette concepts of heavyweight sound.

Van

__________________
Stage 1 California Light
'94 Bach Strad 37
1900 Eb Cornet

LOUD Steve Patrick 10 1/2 C
LOUD LM93

camelbrass

As admirable as Monette is and there is no doubting that, cosmetically at least, he has had an influence on the way trumpets have looked for the last 20 years things like heavy weight horns, heavy valve caps and heavy mouthpieces have been around for a lot longer.

I can't help but think that if I had a raw brass Conn Constellation and put an ovoid tuning slide on it, stuck in an Olds mouthpiece what would it would LOOK like.....?

Just my take on it.

Regards,

Trevor

Jimi Michiel

Trevor,
I think you're right, but I'd like to point something out. Other than the special "presentation" instruments, I don't think they really think of a care what the trumepts look like. My Monette is raw brass and I remember the first thing my mother said when she saw me take it out of the nice leather case that it came in: "What an ugly trumpet, keep the case but send the horn back." (She likes the way it sounds, so I never heard anything else about the looks).
Some trumpet makers seem to have just blatantly copied the look (see below). Others, most obviously Bach, seemed happy that someone was finally having success selling significantly more expensive instruments and took the opportunity to raise their prices. Finally, you get trumpets like Edwards and mouthpieces like the Bach Megatone that "look" like Monettes, and in some ways play like Monettes, but don't really capture the "voodoo" that makes them so special. In a lot of ways, it's like going to the supermarket and buying Brand X "cola" and saying that its dark color and carbonation make it just as good as Coke or Pepsi.
Anyways, sorry for the rant. I read the quote below a number of years ago, before I bough my Monette, and every time I think about it I kinda get worked up. In the end, a good musician is a good musician, regaurdless of whether they're playing a garden hose hooked up to a funnel or a 30g Raja Samahdi.
-Jimi

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__________________

Heavens2kadonka

But dont Monette's SOUND different than other trumpets? I believe there is a problem with some Monette models blending with more conventional trumpets (PLEASE correct me on that statement if I am wrong, but I KNOW i've seen this stated before).

And an Olds looks NOTHING like a Monette. Those swooping crooks, those heavy braces. They're built to LOOK different, definitely.

...And I believe most of the differences in weight back in the day was due to the lacquering and plating. I havent heard of too many old pea-shooter heavyweights, or 1950's Benges with Monette-style bracing. I believe the closest thing to heavy caps back in the day were KNURLED caps, as well.

....Sorry, Trev, I want to argue, and this is a great chance to learn, so don't take me as too overly-aggressive.

Van

__________________
Stage 1 California Light
'94 Bach Strad 37
1900 Eb Cornet

LOUD Steve Patrick 10 1/2 C
LOUD LM93

Heavens2kadonka

...And continuing my little tirade of aguring.

Heres what bothers me. I personally LIKE some of the lesser brand items more than the name. Double Cola, RC Cola, NEHI (*DROOLING*). I also like several store brands (Though Wal Mart is disgusting stuff). I think buying all the top stuff, eating it, and saying anything that doesnt have THESE names are worse than what you're eating is silly.

...And something else.

*************************************

I ONLY buy O'Days Farms Macaroni and Cheese (Save-a-Lot stuff). Best priced stuff around, and it tastes better than the other brands, in my opinion.

Little side note: I use a pinch of sugar sprinkled over the finished bowl while mixing the margerine, milk and sauce. This little personalization gives the taste that I desire. This doesnt taste as good with Craft, and the others, because the sauce packet is made too sharp or mild to mix well enough with my sugar.

So, what I'm getting at with my mac & cheese story, is that it really doesnt matter what you buy, its how what you buy suits YOU as a person. Buying something only for its price or name is silly in my opinion, because a name or price does NOT determine how it individually effects you in the end.

Find the horn of your dreams, wheither its a Bach, Jupiter, Lawler, Destino, Stage 1, Eclipse, or Monette. All we really want is "that" horn that perfectly transmits how we individually produce the tiny little buzz on our lips.

...Too bad we arent already born with the horn in our hands, eh?

Van

__________________
Stage 1 California Light
'94 Bach Strad 37
1900 Eb Cornet

LOUD Steve Patrick 10 1/2 C
LOUD LM93

camelbrass

Jimi,

I agree 100% with you. I was only talking cosmetically..have other makers (including Andy Taylor) copied Monette's look? Absolutely, unashamedly!!! I'm sure that Dave Monette would much rather have his horns admired for how they play and sound rather than how they look (to a point).

However, I was making the point that on their own per se heavyweight trumpets and heavyweight valve caps and mouthpieces have been around a lot longer than Monette.

Van,

My example of the Constellation was merely that....have you ever tried to pick one of those things up? It's not plating and lacquer!! Have you looked at the design of the valve cap and valve bottoms? Have you ever seen an original Olds mouthpiece (the one that came with Olds trumpets)? Look on e-bay..there's an Olds 3 there at the moment. (Van, I didn't say anything about Olds trumpets). Of course I'm not talking about the Monette heavyweights..have a look at some of the Chicago horns, when he started or the current mid-weight models.

I obviously didn't make my point clear. I've never played a Monette (opportunity has never arisen). However, the parts of 'Monette' that have been cited as having been copied are the bits that have been around for 40 or more years. I suspect that the essence of "Monette' has never been copied unlike Fredrick Besson's output, and I doubt whether he wants it copied. One thing is for sure, the 'essence' is not in heavyweight anything..that's all been done before.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE read what I've actually written. I'm not (repeat NOT) criticising Monette. I don't have that right..I've never played one and I do not criticise something I know nothing about. If anything, that 'essence' seems to be unique and that's what's really admirable.

Hope this clears a few things.

Regards,


Trevor

B15M

Some of the ideas were there but no one was copying them or even using them anymore.

Manny Laureano

Trevor,

Ha!

When I first started playing Dave's pieces the guys in my section (who were all, at that time, biologically old enough to be my dads) said "Hey, when did you start playing an Olds?!" I thought that was pretty funny.

ML

Heavens2kadonka

Sorry, I got mixed up! Bear with me, jeez.

(And I own two Olds 3s).

I will go ahead and agree that yes, there HAD to have already been varying weight horns. However, I dont believe the idea was taken as far until Dave came along!

Oh, and Trevor, dont think I was trying to come down on you for saying something that could be interpretted as being against Monette. I have never played one myself either. I just felt like discussing and semi-arguing (And getting my vintage horn makers mixed up, FIE on me!!).

If I was being aggressive I wouldn't use THESE similies: { } Now, would I?

Van

__________________
Stage 1 California Light
'94 Bach Strad 37
1900 Eb Cornet

LOUD Steve Patrick 10 1/2 C
LOUD LM93

camelbrass

Van,

I didn't take your post as being offensive or agressive at all. I just wanted to make sure my point was clear and wasn't being misinterpreted that's all. Discussing this stuff face to face is a whole lot easier than on one of these fandangled machines. I also guess I'm showing my age..I hate using those smiley faces as well.

Regards,

Trevor

PS Manny the secret's out. The Prana B4 is an Olds 3 that has had a drill taken to the throat....clever that Monette fellow!!