DrunkIQ

Larry,

Schilke still offers the sound posts... it's $100 for silver and $125 for gold...

hmm... maybe I shoud "borrrow" one of you extra B6Lb's :idea:

As far as finish goes, Conn offered a satin finish around 80 years ago, it is nothing new and it's trend seems to come and go, I was just always a sucker for it Schilke has never even offered a raw brass brass finish and has stayed true to the historical shiny silver and gold plate that has withstood the test of time.

__________________
-marc melton

Larry Gianni

Marc,

Thanks for the legwork, ( I told you TM, this guy is the one that should do this forum)

I'll call Phil ( actually Carl Hammond is who I usually ask to speak to, he's a very friendly guy who knows his stuff ) and order a few. Maybe I can get a discount for an order of 10 gold-plated

Like I said, Terry or Ren Jr. ( I forget - pre-Naumann era thou ) referred me to Ron for them. It cost's me a little more for the silver that Schilke charges for Gold, which was no the issue, but I had a month's wait or more, for them . I am a realist and know, no company is going to stop everything for a small item like that , especially a small operation. I imagine that type of work is what can be call " filler " .

OFF- TOPIC

Marc,

I hear alto of the film session work is now going to Austin. It got so expensive in LA , that 2 guys went to Seattle and started contracting musicians out of the Phil and Lt. Opera to record movie sound tracks.
The reason was simple economics , if we record here, not only do they pay us scale, plus doubles ( any other instrument you play on the same session is considered a double as long as it's a different instrument , in the same category , that you started the job example: If the parts start off on Bb trumpet, then if calls for flugel, or C , of Eb/d or pic. - that a double and it pays a extra 50% - all it takes is one note and you get a double for the entire session - sweet ), plus special payment to the health fund and a residual payment when the movie goes to another medium ( home video , cable , etc. )

Well they got away with paying the Seattle musicians hourly cash - no benifits, no doubles, no residuals. Once they had you on tape, they could make as much money off you as possible.

The same 2 contractors now are in Austin, TX doing the same thing, but no paying the musician's 30% less an hour - flat rate ( the figure I heard for my friend in the Seattle Lt Opera was $ 30.00 per hour, no minimum )

Heard anything of this? just curious. For everyone else, I'm not trying to start any union vs non-union thing either. It's an innocent qestions, This type of situation is unstoppable, ( Seattle , BBC Phil , have recorded alot of movie soundtrac's over the years and even the Univ. of Minn recorded alot of the Mary Tyler Moore productions tracks , it's the way it is )

LARY - Thanks again

DrunkIQ

Lary, (it's still funny)

I am sure it is more of an issue of economics.... have you looked at the pay scale of the austin symphony vs. most other places like dallas? it is a lot lower... what I never understood is how the payscales are so low and the cost of living here is so high. Every once in a while you will see some stuff on the news about the cost of living pushing out live music.

I do know that Robert Rodriguez (spykids, dusk tilll dawn, once upon a time in mexico, etc) has is using austins old airport as a film studio (trouble maker studios). I am not sure what is going on there but they are making movies...

I have worked with Karl Hammond several times. He is definiatly a very friendly person and really REALLY knows his stuff!

__________________
-marc melton

theoldmaz

One small correction...Ron Pinc was not the shop foreman at the Schilke Company during the years he worked there. He mainly served as general repairman, casing maker, and machinist. Dana Solt held the title of "Shop Foreman" during these years. However, Ron was an excellent craftsman and was a pleasure to work with. When he went to work with Laskey, the company lost an excellent workman.

lonelyangel

Hi Larry - well I guess I'll have to admit that a lot of film work has come our way from LA over the years. Whilst its true that producers who choose to record in London do have the services of some of the finest musicians in the world - I believe we are famed for our sight reading (Star Wars was recorded in three days I believe) and a certain warmth to the orchestral sound - but the bottom line is that we are also cheaper.

However the problem is the same the world over. There are contractors in the UK who are now pitching to take movie scores to the former Eastern Block countries. In Prague, Budapest and Sofia you can get an orchestra for $30 per man for a whole day on a buy out!!!

Some one is making a lot of money out of this - but what can we do? We certainly can't afford to compete with those prices. I guess in the music business there is always some one who is prepared to do the job just a little bit cheaper.

All the best. Noel.

__________________
Noel Langley - Eclipse Artist noel@eclipsetrumpets.com

Eclipse Medium Yellow, scratch gold
Eclipse Medium Heavy Red, custom 'Diamond Back' in 24ct gold
Eclipse Red Brass Flugel
Custom Scherzer piccolo with copper Wedgewood bell, finished in scratch gold
Giardinelli 6S, 6M, 6FL Bach 3CW

Liberty Lips

Actually Stars Wars was recorded in eight days - March 5, 8-12, 15, &16, 1977, at Anvil Studios, Denham, England.

Larry Gianni

Hi All,

Theoldmaz ,

Thank you for the correction, when I first met Ron, he was introduced to me as the shop foreman by then Schilke employee, Scott Laskey.
It was in the early 80's I in the old shop, where the mouthpieces and Scott were located on the 2nd floor and the showroom was on the first.
Maybe Dana was at lunch and Ron was S.F. for an hour.

It was a great time in Chicago then.

Noel,' great to hear from you pisan

The BBC recording orchestra is made up of the premiere players found in the world and I do mean the world. Their sound, phrasing, intensity and discipline is world renown and deserve any work that comes there way.
They are the cream of the crop as far as i"m concerned.

The situation in Seattle was a little different. The 2 contractors created this fictitious " Recording Philharmonic " out of thin air using establish players from the Seattle symphony and Civic Lt Opera. They were only assembled when recording project was being recorded. They were a Philharmonic in name only, unlike the BBC phil that is anotional imstitution that is an establish entity and performs live also.This was the selling point ofr the 2 guys adn they new the movie and TV " bean conters " would jump at it.

When the Seattle musicians got a little fat and lazy ( the LA musician also thought the good times would never end and got a rude awakening ) and started to demand more money and perks, thinking they had all the leverage, the 2 guys just went to a new city and started another Phil. at even a lower scale.

Leaving so called " Seattle Phil " high and dry.

Oh I got a PM about the LA union scale rates: they are no secret , here they are, straight from the " members only " section of the Local 47 website"

Everyone, please don't send funny little posts to me how overpayed we are - did you ever call a plumber ?

Return to the Wage Scales Index
MOTION PICTURE AND TELEVISION FILM
Ask us anything!
Term
As of February 16, 2003
Wages:
Basic 3-hour session (4% vacation pay included):
Per Sidemusician Scale Per 15 minutes overtime
Schedule A: 35 or more musicians 253.07 21.09
Schedule B: 30 to 34 musicians 265.72 22.14
Schedule C: 24 to 29 musicians 278.37 23.20
Schedule D: 23 musicians or less 291.06 24.25

General Provisions for Recording Musicians:
Hold Hour - The musician may be held for one hour beyond a single (3 hour) session or a guaranteed longer call (including a double session). Payment for work done during this hold hour is at the straight time perorated in 15 minute units. Work beyond the hold hour is paid a 150% of the straight time rate prorated in 15 minute units.
Rest Periods - 10 minutes per hour, or two 15-minute rest periods within a three hour session. At no time is a musician required to perform for more than 90 consecutive minutes on the stand.
Minutes of Music (TV Film only) - On the average, no more than 5 minutes of music per hour shall be recorded.
Meal Penalty - A one-hour meal period shall be given after no more than 6 hours of work. The penalty for delayed meals is the hourly straight time rate for the length of the delay, but not less than one-half hour.
Doubling - 50% of basic scale for the first double, 20% of basic scale for each additional double thereafter. Earned doubles must be indicated in the part or authorized by the contractor or leader. In calculating doubles, the rate may not be less than the doubling rate for 3 hours regardless of the length of a call or the division of a double session (i.e., the instrument that you start on remains your primary instrument for the entire session, even if it is only played during the first segment of a double session).
Cartage - (if transported by the musician) - $30.00 for Harp; $12.00 for String Bass, Cello, Tuba, Contra Bass Trombone, Baritone Horn, Bass Saxophone, Baritone Saxophone, contra bass clarinet, Contra Bassoon, Accordion, Drums, all heavy or bulky amplifiers.
Pre-Recording - For feature films only, when music recorded under this agreement is used at pre-production rehearsals a one-time-only payment of 10% of straight time scale wages is paid to each musician for the period of time the music was recorded.
Cancellations - A call for underscoring may be canceled no less than 96 hours before the session. A call for pre-recording may be canceled no less than 48 hours before the session.
Pension - 10% of scale wages
Health & Welfare - Instrumentalists receive 12 hours credit for each day worked, with 300 hours required during each 6-month qualifying period to be eligible for coverage under the Motion Picture Industry Health Plan (Los Angeles musicians only). Hours earned in excess of 300 are credited to your bank of hours, up to a maximum of 450 banked hours. If you should become ineligible, your eligibility will be reviewed monthly until you requalify.

Electronic Multi-Tracking
The following new rates and conditions shall apply for the use of phonograph records in motion pictures and television films (including episodic television):
Scale (per hour) Overtime (15 minutes)
303.93 75.98
265.98 66.49

Low-Budget Films:
(a) This agreement shall apply only to theatrical motion pictures whose final cost initially is estimated to be no more than $27 million dollars (29.5 million in 2004).
(b) Long-Form Motion Pictures produced for Basic Cable, Pay Television, Television Motion Pictures (including "Movies of the Week") budgeted at: $2,500,000 (per program hour). These numbers will to go 2.575 million in 2003 and 2.652 million in 2004.
(c) Motion Pictures initially released to Videocassette and Long-Form Television Motion Pictures made for Pay Television budgeted at more than the amounts in (2) above will be subject to the Low-Budget provisions on a case by case basis
Basic Scale
(4% vacation pay does not apply)
Per 3 hour session 169.36
Low-Budget Electronic Multi-Tracking
(per musician per hour)
Electronic Multi-Tracking (1 musician) 213.25
2 or more musicians employed under EMT Rates 188.18

Pension and Health & Welfare payments are the same as the full budget basic Agreement

Soundtrack Albums:
For sound track albums released in conjunction with a motion picture:
1. If musicians are credited (using the new sideletter to the Agreement) 25% of Phonograph scale wages at the time the record is released. This rate is valid up to 25.000 records. If the musicians are not credited, payment is 50% of Phonograph scale.
2. An additional 50% upon sales in excess of 50,000 records.
3. Additional 20% upon sales in excess of 100,000 records.

Scoring Hours (TV Film)
(a) Add a new provision for 1/2 hour non-dramatic shows only that will allow the use of phonograph records (upon the appropriate payment) to be credited against scoring hours, calculated at 3 scoring hours for each phonograph record so utilized.
(b) Reduce the number of scoring hours required for thirteen 1/2 hour dramatic shows from 21 hours to 15 hours.

Industrial Film Agreement
Basic Scales 2/16/02 2/16/03 2/16/04
Regular Session (2 hour minimum call) 178.81 184.17 189.70
Each 15 minutes or fraction thereof of overtime immediately following a Regular Session 22.35 23.02 23.71
Contractor Required if there are 10 or more musicians 200%
Leader Or only musician called to play on Session
Premium Times 8:00 pm - Midnight 120%
After Midnight 200%
Premium Days Saturdays, Sundays, New Year's Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day 200%
Doubling First Double 50%
Each Additional double 20%
Pension Contributions % of scale earnings (paid to the AFM-EP Fund) 10%
H&W Contributions for each original service (paid to the Local 47 H&W Fund) 17.00 18.50 20.00


Remember - this rate only applies to Film Work:

The other section are;


MP/TV Film ( What you see up there )
TV/Videotape
Sound Recording
Jingles
Music Preparation PDF Chart

Noel, if you want to know th other scales let me know and Ill send them you

Larry

Larry Gianni

Noel,

Here's the tumpet section for " Star Trek - The Motion Picture " recorded November 1979

Al Vizzutti
Gary Grant
Tony Terrain
Jay Daversa
Graham Young ( Henry Mancini's frist trumpet )
Malcom McNabb
Denny Christianson
Warren Luening
Buddy Childers ( He played trumpet solo in " Bob Newhart Show " theme )
Bob Findley
Walt Johnson
Nelson Hatt
Ollie Mitchell
Tony Plog

The order is random and not listed by section chair.

This size section would never even be considered in this day and age.

Info provided by Gary Garnt from picture he has, taken by Nelson Hatt ,of the section.

trptbenge

Hi Guys!

I wanted to get back to the original question about nothing new. I don't think you need to make changes when you have got perhaps the best made trumpet in production. New and different has become such a major theme in our society and generally, it is a marketing tool to disregard what we currently own and run out and buy a new one. Which as trumpet players we need little, if any encouragement to buy a new trumpet.

I always have admired Schilkes committment to quality. I have a B7 from 1972. The horns compression is incredible. It plays like a dream. You can still tweak the horn - if need be. But I reiterate what a previous post said. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Mike

__________________
It's the sound that makes the difference!

bulldog

At TMEA next month, Schilke is brinng a huge line up of horns.... This will be the first oppurtunity for many of us to try a P7 piccolo trumpet.[/quote]

what exactly is the P7 all about? i havent heard anything about this. please explain.