one company, one instrument - Page 3

B15M · 12-24-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liad Bar-EL

B15M, Manny was talking about making your own parts so as not to be beholden to the limitations of other companies. This doesn't say much for the companies that Dave had been dealing with for there is a company who can make better valves/valve blocks with closer tolerances than Dave or any of his previous companies could make. In other words, don't think you Monette players have the best just because Dave makes his own parts. The world does not revolve this way. There is always a better company and Monette is not it for all trumpet parts.

Liad

I agree that Monette made valves or trumpets may not be the best but, There is no way to know weather the manufacturer you talk about is better or worse. When you state that they are better definitively that causes a red flag to go up in my mind.

I am not a trumpet maker but I do work in a field with manufacturing and I understand about outsourcing and the problems that go with it. Even from the people in the industry with the best reputation.

In the trumpet model, Dave can make a bad valve block and scrap it but if it comes in the mail bad then he has to order it again and what if it comes bad again? The idea that he can't make good valve blocks because he only make a few compared to the big guys is ludicrous.

Solar Bell · 12-24-2006, 02:06 PM

Don't try to teach a pig to fly.....

It just wastes your time, and annoys the pig.

I guess I need the ignore option again....

Merry Christmas!

-cw-

Liad Bar-EL · 12-24-2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B15M

I agree that Monette made valves or trumpets may not be the best but, There is no way to know weather the manufacturer you talk about is better or worse. When you state that they are better definitively that causes a red flag to go up in my mind.

I am not a trumpet maker but I do work in a field with manufacturing and I understand about outsourcing and the problems that go with it. Even from the people in the industry with the best reputation.

In the trumpet model, Dave can make a bad valve block and scrap it but if it comes in the mail bad then he has to order it again and what if it comes bad again? The idea that he can't make good valve blocks because he only make a few compared to the big guys is ludicrous.

The red flag in your mind shows that you do not know about the Bauerfine company; so, we are beating dead horse and cause for fights like the one you are trying to start by twisting my statements around in a "ludicrous" way.

Liad

Manny Laureano · 12-24-2006, 03:16 PM

See, this is what happens with threads like this... it starts becoming about who's "better" and how can they possibly be because they don't do this or that.

The people that play Monette trumpets could give a rip where the parts come from, Liad, for the most part. It's presumptive to believe otherwise. They buy them because they like the sounds they can make on them, end of story. That they happen to be American made is a nice plus for the Americans that buy them. I doubt that the foreigners who buy them could care less. That's natural.

I've never been to the Bauerfine shop and I've never heard you mention that you've been to Portland to Dave's. If you did, I missed, sorry. I'm sure either one of us would enjoy a visit to those shops, given the opportunity. There's a lot to learn everywhere you go. But saying that Bauerfine makes a valve block that has better tolerances or valves than Dave could EVER make is just incredibly presumptive, forgive me. How would you know that? Based on an experience you had how many years ago? If you made it your business to take a November 2006 Monette valve block and put it up to scrutiny against another manufacturer's most recent work, okay, fine... then I'd love to see the data or photos.

I just don't get the intensity of this discussion, frankly.

ML

B15M · 12-24-2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liad Bar-EL

The red flag in your mind shows that you do not know about the Bauerfine company; so, we are beating dead horse and cause for fights like the one you are trying to start by twisting my statements around in a "ludicrous" way.

Liad

I'm not trying to fight. The idea of the forum is the exchange of ideas and sometimes to debate.

I'm using the debate option. If you have played on a trumpet with Monette valves I'm sorry and concede that you know both sides. If you have not then you can't say which one is better no matter how good the other company is.

One more scenario:
I think everyone agrees that Monette make very good trumpets and part of the reason is that Dave does what he wants. If the valve block from another company is not the configuration that Dave is looking for then it would hurt the design of the trumpet.

Richard Oliver · 12-24-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar Bell

Don't try to teach a pig to fly.....

It just wastes your time, and annoys the pig.

I guess I need the ignore option again....

Merry Christmas!

-cw-

Better said than what I had typed.

Richard

Liad Bar-EL · 12-25-2006, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Laureano

See, this is what happens with threads like this... it starts becoming about who's "better" and how can they possibly be because they don't do this or that.

The people that play Monette trumpets could give a rip where the parts come from, Liad, for the most part. It's presumptive to believe otherwise. They buy them because they like the sounds they can make on them, end of story. That they happen to be American made is a nice plus for the Americans that buy them. I doubt that the foreigners who buy them could care less. That's natural.

I've never been to the Bauerfine shop and I've never heard you mention that you've been to Portland to Dave's. If you did, I missed, sorry. I'm sure either one of us would enjoy a visit to those shops, given the opportunity. There's a lot to learn everywhere you go. But saying that Bauerfine makes a valve block that has better tolerances or valves than Dave could EVER make is just incredibly presumptive, forgive me. How would you know that? Based on an experience you had how many years ago? If you made it your business to take a November 2006 Monette valve block and put it up to scrutiny against another manufacturer's most recent work, okay, fine... then I'd love to see the data or photos.

I just don't get the intensity of this discussion, frankly.

ML

"It's presumptive to believe otherwise" My whole point is that it is presumptuous to believe that Dave makes the best parts. As I mentioned before about his previous part maker companies, just because Dave can make a better valve block than Getzen (sp) doesn't mean that Getzen was better than anybody else and that now Dave is better than anybody else. Just from playing other horns with Getzen valves and comparing them to Bauerfine which is what I have now, there is no question as to what valves/block is better and I think Bauerfine would show better in any kind of test comparison you would like to do. I don't test valve blocks as a profession nor as a hobby but I know a horn maker who has and I'll take his word for it that Bauerfine has better tolerances. If you want test results, there should be someone in the good ol' USA that could do this testing and you should be able to get the results as fast as a pig says oink.

Liad

Liad Bar-EL · 12-25-2006, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar Bell

Don't try to teach a pig to fly.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar Bell

It just wastes your time, and annoys the pig.

I guess I need the ignore option again....

Merry Christmas!

-cw-

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardwy

Better said than what I had typed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardwy

Richard

Through the merits of Abraham our fore father, my you both fine peace, health, wisdom and prosperity.

Liad

Solar Bell · 12-25-2006, 08:56 AM

It's BAUERFEIND

-cw-

Manny Laureano · 12-25-2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liad Bar-EL

My whole point is that it is presumptuous to believe that Dave makes the best parts.

Liad

Liad,

Please find the quote where anyone said that. Dave uses what works best for him and his concept of sound.

Second, people have the right to believe whatever they want, presumptive or not. That includes you. When it gets written, it gets challenged.

Third, it was YOU, was it not, that began the whole "such and such is better than such and such" business?

Enough, already. Peace.

ML

12-24-2006, 02:06 PM	#22 (permalink)
Solar Bell Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 4,016	Re: one company, one instrument Don't try to teach a pig to fly..... It just wastes your time, and annoys the pig. I guess I need the ignore option again.... Merry Christmas! -cw- __________________ Chuck Willard *The Willard of Oz* "Don't be afraid to see what you see." Ronald Reagan

12-24-2006, 03:16 PM	#24 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	Re: one company, one instrument See, this is what happens with threads like this... it starts becoming about who's "better" and how can they possibly be because they don't do this or that. The people that play Monette trumpets could give a rip where the parts come from, Liad, for the most part. It's presumptive to believe otherwise. They buy them because they like the sounds they can make on them, end of story. That they happen to be American made is a nice plus for the Americans that buy them. I doubt that the foreigners who buy them could care less. That's natural. I've never been to the Bauerfine shop and I've never heard you mention that you've been to Portland to Dave's. If you did, I missed, sorry. I'm sure either one of us would enjoy a visit to those shops, given the opportunity. There's a lot to learn everywhere you go. But saying that Bauerfine makes a valve block that has better tolerances or valves than Dave could EVER make is just incredibly presumptive, forgive me. How would you know that? Based on an experience you had how many years ago? If you made it your business to take a November 2006 Monette valve block and put it up to scrutiny against another manufacturer's most recent work, okay, fine... then I'd love to see the data or photos. I just don't get the intensity of this discussion, frankly. ML

12-25-2006, 08:56 AM	#29 (permalink)
Solar Bell Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 4,016	Re: one company, one instrument It's BAUERFEIND -cw- __________________ Chuck Willard *The Willard of Oz* "Don't be afraid to see what you see." Ronald Reagan

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