eclipse trumpets

Sorry Guy's

I've been in Norway for a few days and have only just had a chance to see this thread amongst others!

Okay well firstly i must say that Trumpetpimp explained himself very well and yes i did understand all of what you said!
I think you got it about 90% right, i do think that lacquer can have the effect of what i call "dampening" the sound of a horn.
It does depend on the thickness of the application of course and the horn you are applying it to.
We at Eclipse tend to advise our customers that if they do want lacquer then they should choose a horn with the darkening effect in mind.
Our LR and XLR models for instance are great with lacquer as they are used a lot in Jazz situations where a little darker will not hurt at all.

Sometimes the response of the horn at low volume can also be affected , but we are talking very very very slight here!! NOT A LOT!!!

Our general rule at Eclipse is that the lacquer will slightly darken, the silver will slightly brighten, and the gold plate will leave the sound as it is when raw.

On flugels of course the lacquer issue never seems to be a problem as most people want that fluffy dark sound to some extent from their flugel.

Regards and sorry for the delay in replying

Leigh

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Eclipse Trumpets

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RichN

Leigh,
you said that the gold plate doesn't have much effect mainly because it's only a few microns thick, but I've seen quite a few people saying that gold plate is put on top of silver plate because it's not easy to plate directly onto brass; do you plate directly onto the brass? use a different bonding layer?

Rich.

trumpetpimp

Thanks Leigh. You confirmed my suspicions about the effects of finish on sound and reponse.

However, I was wondering if you had any feelings about the longevity of raw brass. Do brass instruments need a protective layer before they waste away to nothing or will they survive just fine without it?

And what the heck is a patina anyway?

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For sale:
Courtois 154 flugel
http://www.trumpetherald.com/marketp...detail&id=5375

Kanstul 1500 Bb copper bell
http://www.trumpetherald.com/marketp...detail&id=7504

nieuwguyski

Left to its own devices brass will tarnish, and the tarnish will seal the brass from further deterioration. For some players, a layer of tarnish on a raw brass horn will offer enough protection. For other players, their specific body chemistry is such that tarnish won't offer enough protection. If your hands turn green, or smell bad, after playing a raw brass trumpet, tarnish alone probably won't protect the brass.

I've heard of players who wait for a raw brass horn to acheive the patina they want and then put on a coat of museum wax, or non-abrasive car wax. The wax does need to be periodically re-applied.

A full-protection Leather Specialties handguard would also do the trick.

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John N. Nieuwguyski

eclipse trumpets

I would agree with John above to a certain extent, but have always been a firm believer in a finish being applied to something that has taken a lot of care to build.

John is right that the brass is protected as such with the tarnished surface but i find that only lasts so long and will eventually have no real effect against the acids in our sweat.

If you have seen how a standard bach strad gets eaten away usually on the 1st and 3rd valves sections and just under the bell from constant contact with the hands even when silverplated or lacquered, then of course without having either of these protective finishes i for one feel that it is asking for trouble in the long run.

One thing that is true to say is that we are all different and i have customers that will eat through anyones silver or lacquer in a matter of 3 to 6 months due to the very potent acid in his sweat, and others who will never be back for replating as long as they live.

We do have the option still i think of Raw brass on the Eclipse website, but i must tell you that i have NEVER sold one yet! I always try and advise our customers to have a finish of some kind not only for the protection and look of the horn but for sound purposes from model to model also.

Regards

Leigh

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Eclipsetrumpets.com

Adrian

Hey Leigh(what a cool name), I was just wondering what kind of training you got to do those things you do...did it start out as just a hobby or did you go to school and study it? I am interested in getting into that sort of thing so i was just wondering.

Thanks, Adrian
p.s i posted this in another thread but i dont think u go to it cuz its pretty old...im really eager to hear what you have to say

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How to trumpet players traditionally greet each other?

"Hi. Nice to meet you. I'm better than you."

Robert Rowe

Just wanted to comment here on this not-so-recent post topic ...

Much laudable advice given by knowledgeable folks ... I have gone the "raw" deal on a number of horns (not silver or gold, but lacquer), and found it very satisfying. Of course it is a bit of work (maintenance / polish), as some have commented. But, so what? It's just a "labor of love, as far as I'm concerned. And, it is much easier than you think... about 15-20 minutes per horn every "fortnight" (for you UK chaps).
Question -- did / do you enjoy washing and polishing your car, especially a newer or "special" older one ??

So, give it a try, and see for yourself. If a little in doubt, try it on a less-than-"museum" piece, or "collector" horn.

Robert Rowe

latinjazzcat

Anyone tried stripping a horn in silver to raw brass? Are most repair shops capable of this, and how much does it usually cost? I've been thinking of trying this on one of my horns.

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Jesse