Robert Rowe

If you've caught any of my related posts, you know I do not care for lacquer (for many reasons, which I won't get into here). I do some brass/metal repair and related horn work (my wife is the NAPBIRT brass & woodwind "techie"; I mostly do guitar work). I have been experimenting quite a bit with raw-brass and "scratch" / matte finishing (on "candidate" horns), and I am very pleased with the results. I am about to "go commercial" with this process, out of my shop. Anyone interested in having this done, "PM" me ... it would be very reasonable at this stage -- "time-&-material" -- (sorry, I don't have a digital camera, and cannot show "before -&- after" pics).

So, quite obviously, I am going to recommend your horn not be re-plated, or re-lacquered.


Robert Rowe
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bigaggietrumpet

Ok, I have a few problems with the statements above

1) The pictures I posted are crap. The brass has a lot more of that red crap (it's not red rot, but I'm not real sure what it is). This is my first vintage horn. My ph is apparently like battery acid, and I'm EXTREMELY concerned about my horn's welfare if I continue playing it as often as I do (I don't play anything else anymore). The current finish is gone. G-O-N-E. The bell is probably 40% lacquer, and 40% raw brass, and the flare is nickel (surprisingly most of the lacquer survived there).I'm just wanting to see if this would increase its lifespan.

2) The only, and I mean only, finish that this horn would ever get would be an original style. I'm not totally against modifying horns, but I feel the masters at Olds hit the nail on the head with this horn, and screwing with that just doesn't seem right to me.

__________________
Michael Smith
Hullabaloo: The official band of Texas A&M Basketball
Kanstul 1537/ Schilke 14
LA Olds Studio

Tootsall

One word, "gold".

The incremental cost will be insignificant when you amortize it over the extra length of service you'll get out of your baby. It's probably the most technically rational reason for gold plating (added corrosion resistance) and second only to the argument "it's gold because I like it that way".

It might not make the horn look "original", but if it's done right it won't look that far off the orange patina that's on there now (and it will still be playing long after it would otherwise have gone to that great horn graveyard in the sky).

Happy Canuck

If you go to the Olds Central site and check the older catalogs for the Studio you'll get a picture that seems to match your expectations (more gold shade).

Check here: http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds62/studtru.htm

__________________
Bill

Olds Ambassador, Special, Super, Recording, Mendez Bb trumpets, Custom C trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M
Olds Opera & Ambassador A6 Shepherds Crook cornets/Sparx 4B
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn/GR Butcher 65.6FL
Schilke MII Trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M
If you have an Olds, go to http://www.theoldsregister.com/ and add data

bigaggietrumpet

THAT'S the picture that I had in my head. Only I never knew that the tuning slide was nickel as well. Interestingly enough, I paid more for it 3 months ago than what it cost 30 years ago!

Toots-
The problem I have with gold plating, and realize I may be completely wrong on this, is that you have to take metal off the horn. This would change the playing characteristics, no? I'm also not sure if I could still have the gorgeous nickel trim on it.

__________________
Michael Smith
Hullabaloo: The official band of Texas A&M Basketball
Kanstul 1537/ Schilke 14
LA Olds Studio

nieuwguyski

I don't want to seem like a nag, but this is the kind of misinformation that is probably making bigaggietrumpet's head spin. There is no plating on his Studio trumpet. None whatsoever. You could buff that nickel silver bell flare until you put a hole in it, and you'd never find brass. The Studio bell is a two-piece bell -- the last few inches are solid nickel silver. The valve balusters are solid nickel silver, as is the tuning slide.

To make the horn look original, all it needs is a lacquer job. That's it. I'm not talking about which finish is best from a sound perspective, or my personal opinion about refinishing vintage horns -- I'm just talking about how to make the horn look like new.

If it were my horn I wouldn't worry about the finish. I'd get it looked at by a really good repair tech. If the valves really need rebuilding I'd compare that cost with buying a different Studio in better condition. If it makes economic sense, I'd get this horn worked on to bring it up to the best possible playing condition, but not worry about cosmetics. Then I'd put a Leather Specialties valve guard -- the one with maximum coverage -- on it, and play the thing.

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John N. Nieuwguyski

Tootsall

There is no more need to buff the horn to the point where you remove metal for gold plating than there is for silver plating. The reason for a lot of buffing is to remove the pits, scratches etc.. If the horn surface is good now (except for the thin layer of oxidation), then it shouldn't need that severe a buffing process. The horn will still need to be UTTERLY clean before the plating process begins but (Leigh, weigh in here) that is generally done chemically, not mechanically.

Leigh refinished my 30 year old Eterna cornet... you've seen the pictures. There is no evidence (playing or otherwise) that metal was removed from the surface to prep it for gold plating. The surface was good to start off with.

Given the information you have received from newguyski (sp?) about the solid nickel-silver bell I'd have to change my recommendation and say "get it relacquered (still will require cleaning) and slap a GOOD valve guard on it".

MUSICandCHARACTER

I agree with Toots. That is a classic horn. If your pH is hard on the horn, I would not leave it in raw brass. I know some really like raw brass. But I think a refurbished classic horn looks terrific -- plus it provides great protection. Raw brass has to be wiped down often and ALWAYS looks dull to me. Make sure it goes to a good shop that will not over buff the horn.

Buy a top of the line hand guard. I would recommend Leather Specialities (can be purchased from www.slidebone.com ) or buy one from Greigo ( http://www.griegomouthpieces.com/Mer...ry_Code=ACCESS ). Christan Greigo is the sales manager of Edwards and sells brass accessories and one of the very best lines of trombone mouthpieces.

Then you would have a sharp looking horn at a reasonable price. That, IMO, would be cool. It would also show your students that great horns don't always come from WWBW!

Jim

__________________
Dr. Jim Fox
Licensed Mental Health Therapist
Mouthpiece chart: www.ibowtie.com/tmptmpccharts.html

gmdean

At risk of getting flamed for sounding like I work at a well known and expensive horn maker you might be able to make your pH a bit more horn friendly.

Drink more water and less coke, coffee, tea which are all acid, I'm assuming you are acid, so your sweat is less acid. There are several books on "balancing" your diet (google search time) if you want to go a bit further, cut down on meat etc.

Even if that doesn't appeal just get in the habit of wiping the horn down when you play, I think Andy Taylors web site has something about that and he tends towards raw brass.

As for the horn in question, I'd go the get it back to original finish route or leave it raw and polish it (carefully).

M

bigaggietrumpet

Being a college student, I know 2 things: 1) That statement is not only smart, it's also healthy, and 2) unfortunately, water lacks caffeine, which I'm basically running off of right now.

Also, it seems that it's make or break time. I was at an ensemble rehearsal yesterday when I realized my leadpipe was moving. Turns out that the brace farthest towards the bell has broken. Right were the brace welds to the mounting plate. I'm sick over it. Probably won't have anything done til summer at the earliest though.

__________________
Michael Smith
Hullabaloo: The official band of Texas A&M Basketball
Kanstul 1537/ Schilke 14
LA Olds Studio