Tootsall

So you are hoping that the rhodium plating does not crack and fly off the surface of the horn when you hit those high notes at fff on the Banshee?

Heavens2kadonka

Price Range for (per troy oz.):

RUTHENIUM: $45-95
PALLADIUM: $285-450
GOLD : $345-450
RHODIUM: $425-500
PLATINUM: $625-950

Van

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'94 Bach Strad 37
1900 Eb Cornet

LOUD Steve Patrick 10 1/2 C
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Heavens2kadonka

I'm interested in Ruthenium. Supposed to absorb AND reflect light, and has a look like onyx.

Would look REALLY cool with gold accents, I'd bet!

Just wish I could find a good picture of something plated with Ruthenium.

Van

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Stage 1 California Light
'94 Bach Strad 37
1900 Eb Cornet

LOUD Steve Patrick 10 1/2 C
LOUD LM93

eclipse trumpets

Hi all

Okay just to clear a few facts up about rhodium plating.

I am not sure but i think this may be the first rhodium plated trumpet? i am sure that someone will correct me if i am wrong!

First thing i can tell you is that this plating is NOT, i repeat NOT for those folks who might wants to change back to lacquer at some stage later.

Rhodium is extremely hard and is almost impossible to take off properly once applied to a horn.
You can plate over the top with something else, gold, silver etc etc but don't think for one second that you are going back to lacquer or you will be very sorry indeed.

The drawback to rhodium is that if it goes wrong in the plating process then you have the situation i just mentioned, very difficult to put it right again.

The plus points are:-

1 It does not tarnish like silver
2 It is mostly used in the jewellery industry so it's great for people who have had problems in the past with finishes that do not agree with their skin types.
3 It is apllied very very thinly!!! 0.3 microns are on Gary's horn! very very thin
To give you some idea,Silver is applied at around 25 microns, and gold at 3 to 4 microns.
4 You cannot polish through this finish even at 0.3 microns! it is so hard that you could polish this surface with brasso every day for a month and it will laugh at you.
5 It has a lovely deep shine different to silver and different to nickel plate, it is hard to describe and the pics do not do it justice to be honest.
6 You are not going to eat through this finish like you might on silver or even gold,

One more downside i forgot to mention, THE PRICE.

It is more expensive than gold, but as i've mentioned it is applied far thinner so it balances out in the end to be just about the same as gold plate.
To get this type of resistant finish before you had to have nickel plate which is far thicker than rhodium and not as hard.
The beauty of this is the strength and the fact that it is about the same thickness overall as gold which is the closest thing to raw that you can get.

Rhodium requires a good foundation before it is applied! The surface of the horn must have a brilliant polish finish.
Next a flash copper plate is applied to the horn. Then into the nickel plating vat for about 4 microns of nickel, then comes the 0.3 micron of Rhodium.
Once the nickel has been done then a very thorough scan of the horn is done to check for any defects that may cause the rhodium any problems.
If the nickel is sweet, then it's into the rhodium tanks to a finish.

The shine you see in the pics is from the plating only!!! no polishing work after the plating has been done at all.

We are looking into other types of plating at the moment, and will let you know what happens if and when we have something to show you.

Oh i should mention that Gary's horn has a new rimless nickel silver bell and a nickel silver leadpipe which produce unreal response with the rhodium.
It is a true lead horn, Noel played it today and thought it was fantastic, especially as he knows what Gary wanted from this beast.

If anyone want's further info, then please feel free to ask!

Best Wishes

Leigh

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Eclipsetrumpets.com

Castle Bravo

Leigh, I have to wear a bib now so I don't drool on my laptop when I look at the pics. Hearing Noel play that thing over the phone was awesome!!

you are, without a doubt, T H E M A N ! ! ! ! !


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

BTW -

Check the current prices - I think you are a bit off.
http://taxfreegold.co.uk/preciousmet...usdollars.html

Rhodium is over $2,500 an ounce

__________________
Gary Wilder

Tootsall

Gary, maybe at $2,500 it looks bad, but that's only 6X the price and he is only using 1/10 the volume. He's making an absolute KILLING on that horn of yours! LOL....



NOT!

But.... think of his reputation as a rebuilder? Every time you dent the bell he can put a new bell on it instead of dewrinkling the old one.

eclipse trumpets

Hi Ed

Yeah my new Rolls Royce was delivered yesterday!

I suppose it depends where the rhodium is bought as to the difference in price, and the amount you buy at any one time to get a discount.

Also the copper flash and the nickel base plate are also considerations in the price to some extent.

One thing i think most small trumpet manufacturers would agree with me on is that we will never be rich from making horns.
It is something that you can earn a comfortable living from for sure, but it is a labour of love and very satisfying job to have.

Best Wishes

Leigh

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Veldkamp

It sounds a lot like my situation as a trumpetplayer...

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Larry

Leigh,
I sent you an email late last night but it occurred to me that my questions might be of interest to others around here as well. So, I am posting them here. Also, I'm sorry if these questions have been addressed elsewhere.

First, I love the look of the rhodium plating. Very cool. Although the rhodium plating is more costly than I could manage I'm curious about the rimless idea. How does a rimless bell compare in terms of sound/response to the more traditional rimed bell? And what, for example, would be the effect of a rimless bell on, for example, your XLR model or even an LR Eclipse? Would this make the tone livelier, brighter, no discernable difference perhaps? Just wondering.

Also, am I correct in thinking that the XLR designation refers to the type and size of bell and does not describe a horn with a super large bore size?

Thanks in advance,
Larry

trickg

Rhodium $2,500 an ounce?

Three words.

Not

Worth

It

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