godchaser

-And to speak to your question directly. I'm not a player presently. But your choice of horn seems to suit you Bud. :) I've never met a Lawler yet that didn't already know the answer to anything they were asking. At any time; personally or professionally.


LOL

godchaser

-Just sort'a goes with the territory i suppose-

I have many friends of the profession, so don't feel like i'm talkin' out of school.

NYTC

Chris,
Here is the answer yo your last question:

Physicists would refer to the cabin as an inertial (ihn UR shuhl) frame. This term comes from the fact that, in the cabin, the principle of inertia would apply relative to the cabin. Inertia is a body's resistance to a change in its motion. A body that is at rest tends to remain at rest due to inertia. A moving body tends to maintain its velocity. For example, the fishbowl would be at rest relative to the cabin. Due to inertia, the bowl would tend to remain at rest relative to the cabin.
Until the late 1800's, most scientists thought that all natural events could be explained by laws. "The laws of nature are the same in all inertial frames," where the laws of nature were understood to be laws of motion and any laws based on them.

Hope it helps.

__________________

www.NewYorkTrumpetCompany.com
Stage 1 Trumpets

johnmarkpainter

Buy any Trumpet that doesn't have sticky Valves, a Bach 7C Mouthpiece and come back in 5 years. With all that is going on in your head, you will never be able to play.

I've been playing (mostly casually) for almost 30 years and I am JUST NOW figuring out that I had a "Bright Horn" (Yamaha 737).

There are enough Trumpet player/designers laying awake at night worrying about all of this stuff. All you have to do is go try some horns out to know what is best suited to your style of playing and goals.

Therein lies the catch.....gotta be able to play (at least a LITTLE) to try them out :)

jmp

wiseone2

Quote: Therein lies the catch.....gotta be able to play (at least a LITTLE) to try them out :)Quote:

A few weeks ago at Rayburn's music, many players were playing some of Felix's wonderful horns. Horns went from player to player, each time I marveled at the differences each individual player brought to bear. I believe that it is impossible to categorize, with any certainty, the way any horn will respond and sound in the hands of a group of players of every level of proficiency.
The cart is waaaaaaaaay before the horse. I can say, for me anyway, every horn I own is a keeper. I have tested each and every horn.
You have to know how to play to make any decisions about the trumpet.
I played a Yamaha student trumpet for one Broadway show performance.
I was the only person who knew the difference.
Get a horn and learn to play it, Chris. It's the player, not the horn that is most important.
Wilmer

__________________
Be sure Brain is engaged before putting Mouthpiece in gear.
S.Suark 1951

godchaser

-Hey Felix, i was just thinking on these same lines. Much thanks for that! If a horn's neutral or at 'rest', there's nothing to create 'resistance', or quality sound. Which brought me to question if a balance of musician/instrument is actually this neutral, or correctly diverse horn i'm getting after?

In other words, if a horn's being built neutral- that's to say lacking harmonic frequency response, or the resistance you speak to that's recognizably low/dark or high/bright, then... aaahh-

Let me say it like this; a neutral horn can only be built in degrees of dark or bright, and it's best compliment of player is its opposite of this same degree. Creating a neutral effectiveness, or the capability of playing with greater diversity given this neutral mix?

But this isn't all together correct either. When we consider that skill levels of play is what's creating, or utilizing this horn's capacity of diverse playability. Or the ease by which this can be done.

So to what degree of dark or bright resistance is needed to facilitate adequate harmonic response, or quality sound? Can we get it just past zero left or right of neutral? Is that like trying to balance a little marble on a larger one?

And if anybody's asking why bother. It strikes me all the difference in the world. In every sense of learned playability and sound, from beginner to pro. My rationale's if we're not having to negotiate a balance with a particularly dark or bright horn- that's in keeping of our own natural play-color at any given time. We're in clearer view of our play in this constantly moving learning/accomplishment, or our natural reflective color? To best realize and nurture our migration of changing color and skill progression, is best served in a player's equal compliment/balance of a neutral horn? -Our growing diversity is perpetually matched at all times of play?

This strikes me effectively trading up on our next horn with every session of play- however excruciatingly subtle it may be? It's a ultra-intensive optimization of facilitaing our best play- our best sound, and our best method in learning? But far more importantly, our learning is entirely focused, (at any skill level), of player intent, and beyond the motion of a horn's predisposition of dark or light harmonic-responsiveness. The player would always be centered of their pure sound on a predominantly blank canvas horn? Or more accurately, a horn that's capable in ease of play to whatever degree of dark/bright sound the player wishes, and their skill level will draw up.

Or at least to the degree a horn can be built to neutral, and still ping right? Whatcha make of this Felix, can a fairly much neutral horn work good?

____

"Get a horn and learn to play it, Chris. It's the player, not the horn that is most important."

Cheers Wilmer- John! I hear ya; and i'm workin' on it. :) And i couldn't agree more with you about the horn Wilmer. I feel like your saying exactly the same thing i am here?

rowuk

Mr. Godchaser,
you asked me to respond in another thread. I have, but the content of your post has NOT changed. You obviously have a mind set that you are entitled to, that does not line up with ANYTHING that I have experienced in 40 years of playing, teaching and working with some of the finest artisans in the industry. I see no logic in your train of thought, just a lot of words. If you have a specific (one-liner) question, you can PM me. I give up, I see no common denominator for future discussion. Goodbye!

You don't start out with a sound concept, like learning a language you imitate first. Judging from your command of the english language, you may have difficulty learning to "imitate"

Your sound develops based on outside influence first. Nobody is ever "looking" for neutral. Trumpet players want to be "special". Depending on the type of music you play, your development takes a turn after the basics are learned. A player in a mariachi band does not have the same sound goal as a symphonic or jazz player.

You confuse style and tone. All pro horns are "rich" and are capable of "fat" sounds. Adding a dark horn to a dark player does not necessarily accomplish anything. That player with a naturally dark sound may want to play lead and that requires a different balance than when the same player wants to play symphonic music. Even if you refuse to accept it, there are acknowledged patterns for what works in the various music genres.

Just about everything has been built, dark, bright, heavy, light, everything in between too. Just about every type of horn is being used in every type of setting. We have Charlie Schlueter using a Monette Raja and Manny Laureano using a lightweight Monette - both in a symphonic setting - the same horns that are also used for Jazz! We have Bach 37/43/72 being used EVERYWHERE, Flip Oaks Wild things, Yamaha Xeno, all the Schilke instruments equally so. The correlation that you would like to impose just does not exist!

I am not sure that this GENERALLY applies. Excluding the absolute pros with enough cash or sponsorships, the average player goes to a music store, tries 10 horns of one or 2 brands out and buys the one that is in tune with a free blow. BRAND PREJUDICE was brought along, so I question the actual search for "MY SOUND" issue. This is why we see so many Bach and Yamaha instruments in american orchestras. Brand prejudice. Other countries get the job done with a much greater diversity of instruments!

Your mistake. There is no correlation between dark/light instruments and dark/light players.
Our "sound" must match the job that we want to do. A soloist can get away with more, ensembles have a greater need for adaptability.

A "neutral" horn (whatever that is) is just another "tool". It has no musical advantage over other types. The subset of color and dynamics that a player is looking for is the reason to buy a horn. This is personal.

It just depends what you are trying to neutralize. You are on the wrong track with neutral. I told you this from the very beginning-but you won't let go. I am convinced that intellect cannot replace doing - especially in your case. Some very experienced players have given you a proven roadmap. Get a mouthpiece, get a horn - that is the road to success - the rest is just BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!
The reason for a student horn at the beginning is because they are easier to play before you have developed good breathing/playing habits and commited them to memory. Starting with a pro horn is a handicap! The same goes for a mouthpiece. A 7C is generally a good start because you can get a reasonable sound and range BEFORE your chops are developed. As long as you are not playing professionally, a mouthpiece switch at a later date is not a traumatic experience.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

godchaser

"There is no correlation between dark/light instruments and dark/light players.
Our "sound" must match the job that we want to do."


-I very much appreciate your feedback Robin! It has reflected my meaning of questioning entirely. Your responses were a tremendous benefit for me in seeing your reference and perspective of vast experience. My kind thanks.




If you'd care to respond here further as well, or anyone.


"Your sound develops based on outside influence first."


So there's no particular sound we're predisposed beacuse of our chops, for example?


"...player with a naturally dark sound may want to play lead and that requires a different balance than when the same player wants to play symphonic music."


What is meant by a player's 'naturally' dark or bright sound?


Would you, or anyone define or describe all that determines a player's naturally dark or bright sound?

Is it all simply, "learning a language we imitate first", reflected in our skill level?


Thanks.. Chris