mike ansberry

Hey, Toots or Leigh, or anybody else with experience:

I was just looking at the pics of the horn that Toots scratched and plated. Man, it looks great. I have an old Yamaha laying around, and I was thinking about trying it. This is probably a really stupid question, but you scratched it first, then plated over the scratching, right? I'm not experienced with plating. I was wondering what the horn would look like if I just scratched the existing silver finish. Do you have any pictures of the scratched horn before plating?

__________________
"Music is a fire in your belly that has to come out of your mouth, so you'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt" (paraphrase of Bleeding Gums Murphy)

Tootsall

Mike, yes there are some photos of the Eterna cornet before "scratching". I originally purchased this 1973 instrument from an Ebay auction; it came out of a store in Florida. When I got it, the horn looked fairly decent... there were quite a few "dent memories" and a lot of minor "pinging" on the bell & bell bow. There was also some evidence of fairly serious repair around the 3rd slide: the lyre mount had been busted off and (poorly) resoldered as had the 3rd slide water key (leaving big, "black" marks where the solder was gobbed on). The valves were really good however and the horn "spoke" nicely. I had a local shop do some "spot plating" to cover up a bit of the mess around the lyre mount (actually I had them remove the lyre mount and then spot plate).

It came with the original Getzen "plastic thingy" on the 3rd slide; I managed to break that but found that the Selmer ones fit equally well so that "got my by" until I "got lucky" with the Eclipse.

There is a sort of " photo journal" of the Eterna project (courtesy of Leigh's photography skills" that you can access at:

http://www.photobucket.com

Go to album "Tootsall", enter guest password "shredder", then go to sub album "Trumpets" and then "Eterna" (or is it "Getzen"?)... never mind, you'll find it. I took the "before" pictures where it is in silver plate and Leigh took the rest.

There is also a thread here in the TM site where Leigh has discussed the specifics of scratch/brush finish. I believe that he said there is a 3M abrasive pad that he favours.

From discussions with Leigh, the sequence is kind of like this:
1) fix the horn, not worrying overmuch about the silver plating
2) burnish out all of the dents, diimples, bends, wrinkles, creases & etc.
3) reassemble the major components (soldering)
4) remove the silver plating (I think he said this requires a special tanik with some nasty chemicals)
5) polish the horn
6) using tape, protect all the "bits" you want left shiny
7) spend hours with the 3M pad "scratching up" the rest
8) remove the tape & inspect
9) degrease, clean, degrease, clean & degrease again. Wear clean cotton gloves. If in doubt, degrease three more times!
10) plate (or get a good plater to plate for you).

The cleaning aspect is apparently THE major headache with most plated finishes; shortcuts here will show up forever after and cause you to wonder what went wrong.

Oh... and I didn't do the finishing! Leigh can take ALL the credit for that job. I just had to live with his jokes (check out the photobucket account) and the terribly slow shipping service getting the blamed thing back into the country!

Here is the link to the previous discussion:
http://www.trumpetmaster.com/forums/...?t=703&start=0

Robert Rowe

Tootsall --
Ed, I was perusing the old thread referenced regarding this subject and noticed your mentioning of a automotive machining finish to aluminum. There used to be a guy nearby in these parts (St Michaels, MD, I believe), who did "Damascening" (sp?), or "machine turning", as some used to call it, on vintage speedboat ("GarWoods", "Chris Crafts") and 1930's-era expensive automobile (Packards, Duesenbergs -- you know, the ones with the running boards, side-mount spare wheels, distinctive horn ornaments, etc) metal dashboards. Is this what you were referring to ?

Robert Rowe

Tootsall

Exactly, Robert. A pretty time-consuming process where you'd chuck a wire brush into a drill or drill press and then do repeated "swirls" across a sheet of stainless (or whatever). It would be a very cool finish but perhaps a bit difficult on the (relatively) small diameter tubing of a horn!

Also, your reference to some of the classic boat-builders is right on! You'd see that finish on the guage panels all the time.

Robert Rowe

.That would look incredible! Pretty cool idea, Ed!

I agree -- it would be v difficult, time-consuming (read: "expensive"), but so distinctive. Don't forget -- those gauge panels on the old speedboats were flat. Ever try to drill into/onto a curved surface? I think there is a jig / holder of some-sort to assist in doing this process...? (...anyone ?) .

In-any-case, I would love to see something like this on a horn.


Robert Rowe

Cornet1

Sorry to butt in.....

I have been preparing to experiment with re-lacqueuring and have found that the ideal way to remove the old lac and get beautiful 'scratch' finish into the bargain is to use 'ScotchBrite' pot scourer pads. The old pads which have been well used are the best as it is easy to control the 'pattern' of the finish. If you are forced to use the new pads then they can be 'aged' to a degree by hammering them lightly all over while placed flat on a hard surface,...I used the face of my anvil.

Patterning the trumpet with the slightly wet pad is VERY satisfying work and can be easily encompassed while sitting in front of the TV or while watching the cricket on the green etc......actually it does not take long at all to do.

Hope this is of use to someone....Regards, Bob