Liad Bar-EL

Wonderful picture!

Is that your horn?

It looks like it all copper and like it has a rich sound.

Liad Bar-EL

rowuk

I think everybody is right!
When being a soloist, YOU can do whatever sets your heart on fire-that will hopefully light the fire in your audience.
When being a section person, the section dictates what works, all Bach, all Taylor or all mixed - what counts is what comes out the front. The odds of all mixed being the most integrated is lower than if everybody is playing the same basic equipment, but it can work - look at Manny in Minneapolis for instance - his "section" sounds GREAT.
It is also true that if we start to compare INDIVIDUAL parameters of 1 and 2 piece bells, solid leadpipes, low-rider valve caps-we are doing the Andy Taylors, Dave Monettes and Hub van Laar and all of the other artisans the greatest of injustices. They conceive their instruments from front to back as an entity. I believe they all have the knowledge to do what the "other" guys are doing, but they do not want to. That is what makes this all so wonderful.
I generally do not like to read about so called trumpet comparisons except how Manny did it recently at Monette. He understands what Dave is trying to do and can associate with that TOTAL concept. His comparison of an XLT and an Ajna is valid for me because of that. I would like to see Erik demo all of Hubs instruments. He can relate to what Mr. van Laar is doing and would be an ideal "partner". He also has solid chops so we would hear only the hardware differences. The same would go for any other brand of trumpet - find a player that lives the concept and let them demo the horns for all of us. We then have a comparison by addition instead of subtraction.
The problem with subtraction is that we never know for sure why someone else didn't find a horn "appropriate". It could be weight, sound concept, price, appearance, it could even be commercial interests.
It is impossible to objectively compare art forms, building a trumpet is definitely that. Let's just enjoy the beauty of each player doing what he thinks is best, regardless whether that would be a good choice for us or not.
I am sorry that I sound like a 50 year old father of four-but I am.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Dan Millheim

A few months back I had the privilege of meeing to a gentlemen named T. Hartfield (first name omitted for privicy). For several hours we talked on the phone even though he lives 30 minutes from me here in the DFW area of Texas. Mr. Hartfield is one of the largest collectors of world class trumpets (not vintage) that I have heard of. I believe he has close to 300? He is such a Taylor fan that Andy sells him horns at dealer cost ha. Many of the beautiful custom horns pictured on the Taylor site were comissioned by Mr. Hartfield and the "Hartfield" horn is named after him...how cool is that! He can't say enough about Andy and what a class guy he is. Of course many of us already knew this so any "Taylor copying Monette" bashing is just silly.

While on this subject of collecting... He owns just about ever Monette Horn out there as well.

He told me he has all these world class custom horns piled five feet high in cases all around his house. HUNDREDS OF THEM!

He doesn't post on this forum to my knowlege and he often takes a beating on TH because, according to him, " When you list all the horns (or a bunch of them) in your signiture, people think your lying and I am tired of defending myself all the time."

That's a real shame as he is a wonderful man and a gift teacher with much to add to our little community. Hey, the guy was blessed obviously with wealth and he chooses to invest in trumpets. Kind of reminds me of the shampoo comercial "Don't hate be 'cause I'm beautiful" ha.

Speaking of "Don'ts"

Don't ask to visit his collection (I asked ha) it's not going to happen but he will talk to you forever on the phone about buying and selling horns. What a gold mind of information.

Also, please don't ask me for his number as I don't know if he would want it posted? You can track him down if you really want to and others here know him too. Why no visitors? He very kindly said he prefers to store his instruments "dry", meaning, no, you can't come over and spit up his babies ha.

Sometimes I dream of what it would be like to wander through his home playing hundreds of the finest horns ever made from the premier builders of our day. Can you imagine....?!?!?!?!

An interesting note. He hates vintage Martin Comittees because they are so hard to find without issues. Surprisingly, he prefers the new comittees over vinatge ones for that type of sound and slotting. Never played one but the thought of a red trumpet is so 80's (that's when it would have been cool for me ha).

One last thing...

When one collects, and has played many or most, of the finest hand crafted trumpets from the worlds greatest builders, it begs the question: What is his favorite? His answer to me, without thinking... "Edwards Gen. X!"

Which, by the way, is the spitting cousin to the Getzen Genesis wooohooo!

__________________
Eclipse Custom XLR (Beyond beautiful 24k scratch) gold (05 Eclipse Contest Horn)
Getzen Genesis (Beautiful 24k scratch gold)
Wiseman Double Case (10% discount code: T624)
Monette/Harrelson B1-1 prana custom one off.
Horns/MPC Cryo'ed at Cryo-parts.com

rowuk

This actually should be its own thread. I think your post is 1A.
Without a doubt, Dave Monette has introduced/reintroduced certain design impulses with his trumpets. Playing his instruments, I believe that the cosmetics also have a technical function. There are other manufacturers that in the mean time also share certain cosmetic features - whether we call this "copying" or not really doesn't matter because what comes out of the front of the horn is different or even better UNIQUE. I am greatful that the legal departments of the Monettes, Taylors, Courtois' and others have NOT gotten into the court battles(like apple and Microsoft for instance) to decide who owns what. It would only slow the process down of building us the BEST INSTRUMENTS POSSIBLE. Maybe this would also be a lesson for us, when we get an attitude. Just imagine if somebody had a copyright on the high A in the Brandenburg Concerto (I think Ed Carroll tried to do this once-I see in a post yesterday that he has distanced himself from this previous stance by working with Trent Austin, hahaha!). If the "A" can be played by anybody willing to work for it, why critize swim fins on Monette, Taylor, Coutois, NYTC? The horns SHARE specific design considerations but are not blatant copies of one another. What comes out of the front of the horn is definitely not the same! I am opening a new thread on horn design today and invite you all to visit it!

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Liad Bar-EL

He stores them dry? If not, by the time one is finished oiling the valves, he will have to start over again.

I know of two trumpets which he dosen't have. They are the two I had professionally made according to specs of the solid sliver trumpets used in the Ancient Jewish Temple.

BTW, who is on the board of directors of the company that makes Getzen horns?

Nice post, Dan.

Liad Bar-EL

VINTAGEBRASS

No, it is one that is on the Taylor website. But I am having a Strad body modified with a copper bell, custom leadpipe, and bracing to use as a lead trumpet. The work is being done by Garry Stoner. He just finished a copper bell for my Yamaha C and so far everyone loves it.

Liad Bar-EL

Send us a picture. I'm sure sound has much to do with this but let's put it next to the picture you posted to compare.

Liad Bar-EL

VINTAGEBRASS

I just left Garry's shop and he has some good pictures of the C, so when they are ready I will get them posted. He also has the bell bent for the lead horn, and it may be ready for a play test when I get back from Branson next week.