MPM

And about projection ... this is non-equipment related ...

GET YOUR BELL UP AND OUT OF THE STAND!!!!!

Two very good reasons:(1) If you've got your bell buried in the stand your sound isn't going to get out into the house! (2) You might hear your self just fine but you're gonna kill the guys sitting next to you! I really dislike sitting in a section on a gig and having the guys sitting next to me blowing into their stands. OUCH!!!!! Aim to the side or above the stand. (This is of course assuming an acoustic setting)

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"~iii<O"
Michael Manthey
Scodwell USA Trumpets
Bob Reeves Mpc's
www.ultrapureoils.com
Maynard Ferguson BBN Band

Tootsall

And assuming that us "old farts" can see the music through the bottoms of our glasses! I had to buy a special pair with "fixed focus" set at about 36" in the bottom because my progressive bifocals just didn't "cut it" for me. Now my only problem is seeing "around", "through", and "under" my bell and hands so that I can keep watch on the "black dots".

But I know what you mean about pointing bell into stand; the guy who now sits next to me is an elderly, retired Military player with a lot of big band experience. He buries his whole head in the stand to the extent that he doesn't even see the conductor make "cutoffs" during rehearsal!... he's always playing an additional two or three bars before he realizes everybody else has stopped and is looking at him!

rdt1959

Back when we had a church band, and maybe in the future if we ever have one again (long story, different topic), the director would have me play into the stand when we accompanied the choir. This was so that I did not project too much into the audience (note: I was the only trumpet, the only other brass instrument was a trombone).

But I only did that on vocal pieces.

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Dick Taylor
Georgia
Comeback Player
Benge 65B

Larry Gianni

Toots, Dave, all

I think Dave hit the main point of this piece on the head – how young or advanced a player you are, what ever your forte may be, whatever scenarios you played in whether it a large stadium at halftime while marching with a funny uniform on, a big band in some nightclub, pit orchestra , rock band in a big arena, orchestra at an wonderfully designed acoustic auditorium, brass quintet in a small , live room - this is an “ awareness “ subject , not really a gear/equipment subject, so to speak.

Equipment that we choice to play changes for alot of reasons :as we grow as players, decide a definite musical direction, play with certain ensemble and players on a reg. basis, want to spend more money on gear, etc.
To me, equipment is a tool to be used to perform a certain task, a means to get a certain end, not a marriage ,( I guess you do have that " for better or for worse " issue when choosing a trumpet, and there have been times I'd like to put my wife back into the case and store her in the closet for a while but that's probably another issue )

I (we) use Bach's as the generic " all-round " trumpet on the market. A Bach, in the hands of the right player can actually perform in any musical arena and made to do things it wasn't really intended to do. George Graham played a Mt V large bore, tunable bell Bach for the better part of 30 years, ( prior to his Bel Canto )and nowbody played lead trumpet both in big bands and show secenarios better than George. Mr. Bergeron always sat 2nd to George, that says it all.

Speaking of Bach's and there merits,I was fortunate enough to be at Charlie Davis’s house yesterday and what he does on his Bach 37 – Sterling Sliver Bell – gold plate trumpet is phenomenal. If I ever think I’m really “ something “ as a player, a trip over to Charlie’s and soon I again realize how much I still have to learn. Definitely a humbling experience.

So it’s not about brand loyalty at all– it's mainly about a “ hot “ sound or a “ dark “ sound, a projecting sound or a sound that tends to fall off quite rapidly, hearing yourself at any cost or projecting so much you play by feel the majority of the time.

As we all know, their are phenomenal players who defy logic and can play, at a very early age, very efficiently, with an intrinsic muscle control that let them play smaller equipment and yet get a large sound and commanding range.

Also, there is the great player , who at this point of their carrier is fortunate enough to always have a mic, monitor and soundman present when they perform ( Maynard, Doc, Maurice Andre, etc ) so they would definitely have a different perspective of projection and blowback.

This is really not to pit one trumpet against another. I usually carry 2 Bb’s to a playing situation that is unfamiliar to me acoustically/ musically and with whom I’m playing with, what I being asked to do section wise, etc. Both will play the same notes, but they will sound completely different.

Again – AWARENESS – is the big issue.

Lg

FreshBrewed

It's a funny thing this was brought up, as I was in a newly renovated room today playing. On one wall were the new acoustics and on the other there were curtains. Playing into the curtains it seemed from behind the bell that the sound was just there and not really getting out to the masses. Then I turned and played into the new wall. WOW! I was able to hear overtones and the horn really sounded like it had some depth to it. I continued to switch back and forth for a while between curtain and wall. I noticed that what sounded good on the wall felt comfortable on the curtain, depite the fact that the curtain sounded like I was in a 3' x 3' closet full of foam. I also stood different distances from the wall and the curtain. I also did this with a few changes made to my chops and what was uncomfortable on the curtain was horrid sounding on the wall.

I am going thru some chop changes at the moment and think I am going to stick to this room to ensure that the changes I am making feel both comfortable and sound good from the "other" point of view.


As far as not being able to hear yourself, I run into this a lot. I'm in the military and often play outside. Right behind me are two snares with kevlar heads which makes for an interesting job. My suggestion to those in the same boat (not able to hear yourself) is to not crank the volume. It's only going to cause those in front of you to crank their volume and so on. My advice is pay attention to your body in these situations. You, as a player, know if you are knocking down houses or playing like a mouse by the way your body reacts. Even if you can't hear yourself.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Oh yeah, great post Mr. Gianni.

__________________
Mike
Eclipse MHY Bell
1949 Olds Ambassador

Listening has nothing to do with moving your mouth!

nowherenearadouble

On the subject of projection and feedback, has anyone comments on the 464 bore Callet Superchops
Alan

Thevor

While reading through this thread I began to wonder if hearing my trumpet "voice" (blowback and projection) is a lot like hearing my own speaking voice. I hear myself speak everyday, yet when I hear myself speak on a recording, I think "that doesn't sound like me."

It would be interesting to know if the trumpet "voice" that we hear while playing is the same voice that others (the audience) hear?

Geo

dcstep

Geo, I've heard my trumpet recorded a good bit and it's closer to what I hear when playing than my recorded speaking voice is to what I think it sounds like when I speak. I don't know why. It's still different, but not nearly so shocking. Perhaps it's because so much of the sound is outside of your body compared to you speaking voice which comes entirely from within your body.

Dave

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Schilke '60 B1
Selmer Paris -- '57 #20 K-Modified/
'03 Concept TT w/ GR66.8B2.8
'94 Lawler TL cornet w/ Sparx 2B
Conn Vintage One flugel - GR66FD
www.pitpops.com www.ucm-inc.com
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

Thevor

DC,

You're right but it is possible to train the trumpet "voice" to be the same as what is recorded (or what the audience hears) - that is the definition of a good player. Was the first recording the way you expected to hear yourself on a trumpet? or did it sound like a different "voice"?

I was thinking more along the lines of players who might hear the playback (I'm defining as the trumpet "voice") but the audience is hearing something entirely different. It would be along the same shock as hearing your own recorded voice for the first several times, it just doesn't sound right. (so which is the true voice in this situation the one you hear in your head or the one you hear in the recording) With that said, do we adjust the sound that we are hearing from the trumpet (playback) or adjust to the sound that others hear (projection). Isn't the sound that the audience hears really the true sound regardless of what we hear as players.... you'de hope they would be the same but what we hear may not always be what others hear.


Geo

dcstep

Well, I surely agree that the sound that the audience hears is the "true" sound of a trumpet/player combination. If a trumpeter never leaves his or her home, then no damage is done (except to the family). There is often a disconnect. Some are too timid, some play way below or above the pitch and others are nasty and loud and all of this is relatively common. Often this is due to unawareness, for whatever reason.

A great teaching method, IMHO, is to play duets with students and have them try to match your tone, volume, inflection and resonance. Also, play a line and then have the student match it. In this case, it really helps if the teacher is a great player.

Dave

__________________
Schilke '60 B1
Selmer Paris -- '57 #20 K-Modified/
'03 Concept TT w/ GR66.8B2.8
'94 Lawler TL cornet w/ Sparx 2B
Conn Vintage One flugel - GR66FD
www.pitpops.com www.ucm-inc.com
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest