Tootsall

I feel your pain, Hornucopia. I'd like to see my name on an Eclipse...but I don't know if it's ever going to happen. :(

Cornet

Thevor,

I've just read all the posts on TH and TM about this and cannot believe there isn't more condemnation of what's gone on.

Not one person on the TH has raised an eyebrow - maybe they are all too scared of the Moderators now or maybe the Moderators have deleted anything which may be seen as supporting Alex?

I don't know all the facts, however on the surface this appears to be very poor form on the part of some respected names in the brass community. I am very disappointed in their actions.

I am especially surprised that Flip Oakes would jump right in and post something like that knowing he is going to cause some grief. OK, so he was given a prototype to play on the quiet. I'd go ahead and play it as well, but I wouldn't be telling the world about it when the person who paid for it hasn't released the thing yet.

Again, very disappointing all round.

jamesfrmphilly

"Thevor - Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this? "

no you're not, seems like a double standard to me

Larry Gianni

Hi

Our we talking about a trumpet or a " Nucelar secret " .

Seeing words like:

" Super Secret "
" Bummed "
" No-Expenses Barred " ( there is not such approiach in making a trumpet
" Pre-Planned Test Leak "
" Fools "
" Pass , Poor Judgement " ( is that really Piss. Poor Judgement ?
" Hipocresy "
" REPREHENSABLE " - that was my favorite ( without using spellcheck )

Wow , it's a trumpet and more than that, it's just one man's opinion about a trumpet.

First of all , all the trumpets at kanstuls get the same attention to detail, the same quality control , the same plating / laquering process. the same quality of material ( the highest quality that the choosen material is available ) , the same high standard of assembly , the same buffing process , the same cleaning process, etc.

I never heard any complaints on any of the sights at the level of quality , consistency and performance of any of the Kanstuls products. If you like a Kanstul, then you like it , if you don't , then you don't ,but workmanship and quality never seems to be the issue.

In fact, what I've seen most time is a great appreciation for the consistency and quality of any product in the line.

This same workmanship goes into every brand Zig Kanstul produces which include:

Wild Thing
Callet
Zeus
Lawler ( I think the bell only )
Smith / Watkins
Besson
Chicago
Bel Canto ( to bad that ones not around anymore )

Plus here is the real " Cat out of the Bag " - MONETTES !!!!!
( just kidding about that one )

Zig Kanstul and his Company have keep up with the times like no other manufacterer , he's pour big money into the latest digital technology and tooling so his and everyone else's line he builds is made to perfection with all the " bells and whistles " everyones come to expect and a consistency which is un-matched.
Also, this is more than I can say about alot of called " well established " companies have done were quality control is misererable and it the " luck of the draw " if you get a good product.

Oh by the way, I don't own or play a single Kanstul product , but I really apreciate what Kanstul has done for the brass playing community in it's very short existence ( mid 80's )

Larry Gianni

Oh . by the way , Zig Kanstul ( who I believe is in his early 70's ) is in his factory before 5:00 am every morning and doesn't leave until well after dark - SEVEN DAYS A WEEK

TheMoose

Here is something to think about. How were the Super Moderators selected by the Trumpet Herald System administrator? What do the majority of them have in common?

The Moose

Larry Gianni

GOOD LOOKS ?

lg

Hornucopia

Gee ...

If I had to guess, I'd guess that ANY SA would pick people they trusted and who were loyal to the mission of the site. What they have in common, perhaps, is that the SA trusts them.

How did TM pick the moderators for this site, The Moose?

Anonymous

I just looked for the best people I could find! Do you think tom turner and I had been best buddies and he jumped at the chance to come here? I made some mistakes in the past and I apologised to Tom. I know when it comes to topics like Vintatge Trumpets / Cornets. Wild Things and other great stuff like firearms :) he is one of the best in the business. We have become good friends and I am thrilled to have him! I also contacted some close friends for some forums and some former enemies :)... and I contacted some makers / owners for the dedicated horns forum. Andy Taylor, Leigh, Alex Zachary, Jack Kanstul, Flip Oakes just to name a few.

I tried to get the most qualified and most knowledgeable people here so that we can have great discussion.

TM

quote="Hornucopia"]Gee ...

If I had to guess, I'd guess that ANY SA would pick people they trusted and who were loyal to the mission of the site. What they have in common, perhaps, is that the SA trusts them.

How did TM pick the moderators for this site, The Moose?[/quote]

Hornucopia

LG,

Just so there's no misunderstanding ...

I'm "SO bummed" because I haven't been flooded with IMs from people offering me free horns to endorse. (BTW, I'm willing to endorse mouthpieces, mutes, and cases as well ... :wink: )

I'm not sure if anything wrong happened here. I am pretty sure that a few people would have jumped down AleX's throat with both feet had he had an opportunity to play someone else's prototype and then posted anything less than a stellar review. Thevor's point is that Flip got a walk for something AleX would be nailed for.

Either way, you're right, the free world will be able to rest easy regardless of any possible breach of confidentiality.

And I've nothing but good stuff about Kanstuls ... both the men and the horns. And the same for Flip.

gzent

Yes, it is a double standard.

1) Assume Flip disclosed Alex's specs without his permission - that would be an unethical thing to do, regardless of what you think of the two men.

Why?

A) Because even though Flip said he was not comparing the ZZ with the WT, of course he was! The WT is his baby, the pinacle of all his work. He absolutely will use it as the benchmark, in his opinion, for all other horns he tries out, especially a horn targetting HIS market.

B) He was commenting on a PROTOTYPE!
Its just not right for Flip to publicly do this, especially before Alex even has a chance to inspect HIS horn.

2) Assume Flip disclosed Alex's specs WITH his permission. I highly doubt it. Alex has told a few people some of the specs and price point of the new horn with the complete understanding that such info is confidential and NOT for public viewing. Why would he want Flip, who is the darling of the custom trumpet market, to reveal his horn and how it plays? Alex is too smart to go that route.

3) Men who want to take the high ground and chastice Alex for his marketing methods should be above even a hint of unethical actions, lest they appear hypocrates.

Greg