Anonymous

Larry no problem. Just get me the rest of the $$$ when you can! For the rest of the moderators Decmeber 1 is not far away. Please be ready to pay up!

TM

Anonymous

Rev. I take it you must be one of the last dealers to try this bad boy out?

TM

swthiel

OK people, let's think this through from a different angle.

First, there are in fact three parties with an interest in this situation, Alex, Zig, and Flip. Only one of them has posted in this thread, and has stated that one of the others has made assertions contrary to fact. However, it is not clear to me that any one of these people has all the facts in the case. Alex wasn't there when Flip tried the horn (or not, depending on who you believe). I have no reason to think that Flip knows anything about the details of the business arrangement between Zachary and Kanstul. I have no idea what Zig knows.

Thevor raised the question of whether Flip got a pass for doing something for which Alex would be taken to task. I don't know that Flip got a pass ... but many would give him the benefit of the doubt because of his past behavior. Alex tends not to get the benefit of the doubt because of his past behavior.

If something improper happened here or on TH in this regard, it is really up to Alex, Zig, and Flip to work it out. The rest of the spectators should butt out.

Second, Alex stated:
A "strong wish" is not the way to protect intellectual property or business strategies. That's what confidentiality agreements, patents, and secure web sites are for. I'm not defending a leak, if there was one, I'm saying that it sounds like Alex had means that he didn't employ to protect his design.

Third, if Alex has indeed lost his ability to post on TH, it's because of his own actions -- behavior that seemed to me to be clearly abusive to other members of that community. That behavior apparently was unacceptable to Todd as well.

One insomniac's opinions,

Steve

Reverend

TM,

The new ZeuS has not reached me yet...but it's coming! From what I hear by those who have tested it...it is one INCREDIBLE trumpet!

Blessings,

Thevor

swthiel,

You wrote; If something improper happened here or on TH in this regard, it is really up to Alex, Zig, and Flip to work it out. The rest of the spectators should butt out.

I agree that any breach in confidentiality, contracts or proprietary information will ultimately be resolved between the three (any form of resolution is not up to TH or TM members). Yet, Flip was the one that introduced his comments to the TH forum, readers were no longer spectators rather participants. His comments involved everyone. I am not questioning his motives. I am not questioning the legality. I see this as slightly underhanded and unethical. My question was whether he was going to get a free pass.

From my perspective, the information between the two sites seem to be fairly fluid, so a post on TH will eventually end up here and vice-versa.

but many would give him the benefit of the doubt because of his past behavior. Alex tends not to get the benefit of the doubt because of his past behavior.

Alex deserves to be shredded on many levels for his past and current behavior. His marketing ploys have become tiresome and are nothing short of foolish. That being said, ones poor behavior shouldn't dictate that another persons poor choices should be ignored because he is a "better person".

Let's say you obey the speed limit 99.9% of the time , yet you got busted in a speed trap. A co-worker continually disobeyed the speed limit and hadn't had a speeding ticket in years, it would seem unjust to you. The fact remains that your offense had nothing to do with the other and you certainly can't point blame at the co-worker. It was your fault that you were speeding.


Time will tell if Flip gets a pass on this.

Wouldn't be interesting to find out that the JupiteuR wasn't manufactured in the Kanstul factory at all. Not all of Alex's horn are made there. That would be an interesting twist........

Mr. Stomvi

From Flip on TH

Hello Everyone,

I probably shouldn’t have made the post I did... Please excuse me, as I thought this was a trumpet information site. When someone posts a question, someone who perhaps has the answer who is qualified answers. When I played the horn at Kanstuls, it was over a month ago.

histrumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: Nov 11, 2001
Posts: 544
From: Mobile, Al Posted: 2003-11-14 06:43
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Ok, before the flames start licking up around my backside let me state that I "just want the facts" as Joe Friday would say.

Is there someone who is a qualified horn designer, builder, or otherwise an expert who can tell us what this horn really is? No smoke and mirrors, JUST THE FACTS.

Then.........

heavyharmonies
Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 100 Posted: 2003-11-14 07:19
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Is it even out yet? I remember Alex posting here with all sorts of fanfare on how it would be available "next week" but that was a month ago...

There's a term for this in the software industry: "vaporware".

-Dan



I have had potential buyers well over a month ago before this posting, inquire if I knew anything about the new .470 Zeus? I told them I’m sure Alex will make some kind of announcement soon, I mean why not? Well it’s been sometime now, and no one has said a word.

Perhaps in bad taste, however not intended to be, as what I said WAS 100% TRUE. YES I TOUCHED AND PLAYED THE MIGHTY .470 ZUPER ZEUS.... Like I said I just happened to be at the factory, picking up some horns, and I took in my personal Bb WT in a double case, as I had my flugel with me as well. My personal WT was wearing thin in spots, and I brought it in to be Re-Goldplated, and because of this I had all my mpcs. in the case.

While I was there in the back at the receiving, and shipping , I saw the Zeus’s being ready to ship. I asked if the new .470 was there and was told yes. It wasn’t even stenciled yet, or wiped down, and put in a plastic bag, so I asked if I could play it. I was told yes, I could play it as he was sure that I would be getting calls, as to how it compares to the WT, and this would answer any of my questions etc. When Zig came out with his 103 Coliseum, he invited me to come up and play it and see it, so there would be no confusion. Zig has known me for over 20 yrs now, and knows my concern in large bore trumpets. In the past I have called him many times, when a different .470 is introduced such as in the .470 Chicago Big Band. So I’m guessing, or assuming he figured it would save a phone call. Since then as I talked to him yesterday he also told me, that it’s not uncommon for anyone who’s visiting the factory on a tour for example, to try anyones horns as there comming through. Including my own. I know I have had emails from people saying that they tried my WT's at the factory during a tour, when it just happend my horn was being run in a production at that time.

So while, I perhaps made a mistake, by reporting on the Zuper Zeus, or whatever it’s called. The day I played it, it hadn’t yet been stenciled, so there was no name on it. However, I did play the horn, my findings are of my own opinion, as I reported, on the behalf of the ‘ Has Anyone Test Played The Super Zues? Thread, that I observed, I tried to be fair. As for a example when I said it was all brass no nickel, I meant that to be a way of visual description, not to be criticizing, that it had no nickel. I have never seen any photos of that horn, and assumed no one else had either on any site. Even to this day and moment I have NEVER seen a photo of any description, or any detailed word description of that trumpet EVER. I wrote down the serial number to authenticate my findings. And I’ve seen it once, that was enough for me. I have no interest in Alex's website, only I wished he would not list Wild Thing as a product he sells, which is another story...

My story is 100% true, and I would gladly take a polygraph test if asked on this matter...

I have always been truthful, and I not going to back out of this, as it’s not me making up any of this. Perhaps I should not have said anything to the group, as it’s in the past, and I can’t undo it, and I’m not going deny anything I have already posted or said. It’s a event that happened, I do apologize to Zig Kanstul, for anything that I have done or said that would put him in a bad light or make him look bad, as he was just there in shipping and receiving as I was at the time this occurred. Neither Zig or I knew I was going to post this a month later. Zig has always been a close, and personal friend of mine, through the years, and a most important person in my Flip Oakes Wild Thing Trumpet endeavor as well. I would not want to involve him in any way in a negative way.... AND I do apologize to him if I had.

I will also promise however not to ever contribute to any other post again, that doesn't concern me personally, or my product ever, even if I’m asked. Though I will continue to make announcements, concerning my own products.

This is my final statement regarding this matter.

I Remain,

Flip Oakes

Flip Oakes “Wild Thing Trumpets”
COME AND HEAR THE DIFFERENCE
http://www.flipoakes.com

"To read what Wild Thing owners say about their horns, click on this"
http://www.flipoakes.com/testimonials.htm

Flip Oakes
2559 Mottino Dr.
Oceanside, Ca. 92056
760-643-1501
760-643-1511 FAX

To Hear the Flip Oakes Wild Thing Trumpet go to
http://www.flipoakes.com/multimedia.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thevor

There's Mr. Oakes explanation. Obviously he didn't get a pass from the folks on TH either.

He was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, a veiled apology was handed out. Regardless, I'll consider this matter closed. swthiel is correct in one regard, it's now up to Alex, Flip and Zig to sort it out.

jazzman54

well well well it sounds like flip did in fact play it... so I take it this model is not based on that old Bach trumpet Alex has. This sounds like a larger bore horn in the style of a big wild thing? Am I wrong?

jamesfrmphilly

BTW - souldn't this thread be in the ZeuS forum?

Anonymous

This is the Wild West. You can talk about any horn here. Yes it could have been started in the ZeuS forum but there is no problem people are talking about it here.

TM