Zeus Olympius - Page 5

gzent · 04-05-2005, 02:08 PM

Sorry, I stand corrected!

I still don't understand why all the concern if Zeus owners are vocal about their horns, certainly the Wild Thing and Eclipse fans don't get attacked for praising their horns.

I still say the Zeus G is a solid pro horn for a great price, much like any horn made in the Kanstul shop. When I find (or build) a better pro horn for under $1000 then I'll part with the Zeus. Its just a horn to me, so, I'm still looking for something better.

Greg

zuester · 04-05-2005, 02:11 PM

dc step, I fully understand, the point of your post , but I must say I find it a little presumptious of you to tell people what they should and should not post about. I don't want to offend you, but I am really very well qualified to comment on trumpets of any bore size, just as I am sure that you are equally prepared to do so .
As I have said a million times , my problem is not whith the hors per se,
just these overzealous ZeuS dealers.

Later

zuester · 04-05-2005, 02:18 PM

There , gzent said it a solid pro horn for a good price, of course I am paraphrasing here but that is the jist of it .
Now , is he bashing Zeus , sonds to me like he is saying the same thing I have been saying, A DECENT HORN AT A FAIR PRICE, that's it
no more no less,

NOW, is he bashing ZeuS.
No, I think not just expressing his opinion !

dcstep · 04-05-2005, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zuester

dc step, I fully understand, the point of your post , but I must say I find it a little presumptious of you to tell people what they should and should not post about. I don't want to offend you, but I am really very well qualified to comment on trumpets of any bore size, just as I am sure that you are equally prepared to do so .

You must resemble my remark, since I didn't mention your name or quote you. My post was for the benefit of those that don't understand how much difference there is between a m-bore and an xl bore trumpet. (Many readers on this forum).

If you are indeed qualified to "comment on trumpets of any bore size" then, I think, you'll agree with me.

I happen to agree with almost everything you've said here EXCEPT I have NOT played an Olympus; therefore, I cannot comment on my preference for it as compared to a Selmer Paris CG or a Wild Thing, .470" trumpets that I have played and enjoyed (but not enough to buy them).

Dave

zuester · 04-05-2005, 02:37 PM

DC STEP,
you are correct sir, (in the words of Ed McMahon to Johnny Carson),
I find it also interesting that the Large Bore Trumpets that they are making today , don't necessary play like that old large bores of the old days.
I personally find that a 468 is just about big enough for me . I also think that med. large ( 462, 463 , 464, ) offer a good compromise for the player not happy with the standard 459 bore. I personally have a Bach LT 43 and a Holton ST307 (468), and a Yamaha 6310 Z ( step bore as we all know)

dcstep · 04-05-2005, 02:44 PM

I think that the most recent crop of LB horns tend to have very fast bell flares and, in some cases, actual diameters exceeding 5". The flare rate, in particular, makes a horn feel even larger than the bore size might lead you to thing. My Concept TT is only a .463" bore, yet it feels larger than that to me because of the really fast flare, IMHO. (Probably the taper of the leadpipe also has something to do with that).

The large bell on the Schilke B1 and the 8310Z explain where a lot of their "feel" comes from.

I think that some of the current crop that combine large bores with large bores actually start verging on the side of "tubby" or too broad, at least for my tastes. Still, I presume that if I work long enough and hard enough with my mpc selections and get the backbore right, I might could dial that out. Instead, I'm happy where I am, but I can understand why some gravitate to these large-bell/large-bore horns.

Dave

gzent · 04-05-2005, 03:25 PM

Actually, when I bought my silver Zeus G in Nov. 2002 for $975 it was a great price. Now, the price is up to $1175, so its still a very good deal, but not great since inflation would put the cost at about $1025.

After having a custom made C trumpet built for me at a cost of $635, I tend to believe that a solid pro horn can be made and sold for a decent profit at $1000, so long as the labor takes place in the US in an affordable, smaller market. We'll see if I can come up with one that really does outperform the Zeus for less money.

Greg

dcstep · 04-05-2005, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gzent

After having a custom made C trumpet built for me at a cost of $635,

Where? Expert customization of an existing C trumpet could easily cost that and be well worth it.

Dave

gzent · 04-05-2005, 04:47 PM

There is a brass tech. named Mark Kukloc that has a shop in Owatonna, MN that does the work.

He has made 8? C trumpets starting with Olds Ambassadors. He charges $500.

Everyone I know that has one has been very pleased and dropped whatever C trumpet they played before (Bach, Holton, F. Besson, etc.).

I started with a $135 horn and for $500 I have a C trumpet that plays great AND in tune. Such a simple idea I don't know why Bach can't build one.

dcstep · 04-05-2005, 05:18 PM

Ok, I understand now, he's not building a trumpet from scratch. Melk, Laskey and few others will "enhance" an existing horn for around that amount.

Why can't Bach do it? I don't if Bach will do it, but Schilke, Kanstul and others will "recondition" their old horns (Kanstul will even do others I think) in this kind of price range. I think you're talking apples and oranges when you talk about moving some braces, changing the leadpipe and these kinds of modification vs. starting from scratch to fabricate a valve section, bell, etc.

Look at it another way, if it costs $500 or so to "tweak" and existing horn, then $1500 retail for one made from scratch isn't bad at all.

In your example, whether you start with a $75 horn, a $500 horn or a $1500 horn is a matter of choice. There are bells that I'd prefer to start with as compared to an Ambassador. Was there a Recording C? If so, personally I'd pick that, based on my comparative experience with Abassador and Recording Bbs. I much prefer the Recordings, pre-tweak, and I think a lot has to do with the bell.

Still, what you're proposing is a viable option for many. I'd probably start with a $500-$1000 horn, but that's my personal preference.

Dave

04-05-2005, 02:08 PM	#41 (permalink)
gzent Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rochester, MN Posts: 1,515	Sorry, I stand corrected! I still don't understand why all the concern if Zeus owners are vocal about their horns, certainly the Wild Thing and Eclipse fans don't get attacked for praising their horns. I still say the Zeus G is a solid pro horn for a great price, much like any horn made in the Kanstul shop. When I find (or build) a better pro horn for under $1000 then I'll part with the Zeus. Its just a horn to me, so, I'm still looking for something better. Greg __________________ Harmony and understanding Sympathy and trust abounding No more falsehoods or derisions Golden living dreams of visions Mystic crystal revalation And the mind's true liberation

04-05-2005, 02:44 PM	#46 (permalink)
dcstep Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Denver Posts: 680	I think that the most recent crop of LB horns tend to have very fast bell flares and, in some cases, actual diameters exceeding 5". The flare rate, in particular, makes a horn feel even larger than the bore size might lead you to thing. My Concept TT is only a .463" bore, yet it feels larger than that to me because of the really fast flare, IMHO. (Probably the taper of the leadpipe also has something to do with that). The large bell on the Schilke B1 and the 8310Z explain where a lot of their "feel" comes from. I think that some of the current crop that combine large bores with large bores actually start verging on the side of "tubby" or too broad, at least for my tastes. Still, I presume that if I work long enough and hard enough with my mpc selections and get the backbore right, I might could dial that out. Instead, I'm happy where I am, but I can understand why some gravitate to these large-bell/large-bore horns. Dave __________________ Schilke '60 B1 Selmer Paris -- '57 #20 K-Modified/ '03 Concept TT w/ GR66.8B2.8 '94 Lawler TL cornet w/ Sparx 2B Conn Vintage One flugel - GR66FD www.pitpops.com www.ucm-inc.com Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

04-05-2005, 03:25 PM	#47 (permalink)
gzent Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rochester, MN Posts: 1,515	Actually, when I bought my silver Zeus G in Nov. 2002 for $975 it was a great price. Now, the price is up to $1175, so its still a very good deal, but not great since inflation would put the cost at about $1025. After having a custom made C trumpet built for me at a cost of $635, I tend to believe that a solid pro horn can be made and sold for a decent profit at $1000, so long as the labor takes place in the US in an affordable, smaller market. We'll see if I can come up with one that really does outperform the Zeus for less money. Greg __________________ Harmony and understanding Sympathy and trust abounding No more falsehoods or derisions Golden living dreams of visions Mystic crystal revalation And the mind's true liberation

04-05-2005, 04:47 PM	#49 (permalink)
gzent Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rochester, MN Posts: 1,515	There is a brass tech. named Mark Kukloc that has a shop in Owatonna, MN that does the work. He has made 8? C trumpets starting with Olds Ambassadors. He charges $500. Everyone I know that has one has been very pleased and dropped whatever C trumpet they played before (Bach, Holton, F. Besson, etc.). I started with a $135 horn and for $500 I have a C trumpet that plays great AND in tune. Such a simple idea I don't know why Bach can't build one. __________________ Harmony and understanding Sympathy and trust abounding No more falsehoods or derisions Golden living dreams of visions Mystic crystal revalation And the mind's true liberation

04-05-2005, 05:18 PM	#50 (permalink)
dcstep Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Denver Posts: 680	Ok, I understand now, he's not building a trumpet from scratch. Melk, Laskey and few others will "enhance" an existing horn for around that amount. Why can't Bach do it? I don't if Bach will do it, but Schilke, Kanstul and others will "recondition" their old horns (Kanstul will even do others I think) in this kind of price range. I think you're talking apples and oranges when you talk about moving some braces, changing the leadpipe and these kinds of modification vs. starting from scratch to fabricate a valve section, bell, etc. Look at it another way, if it costs $500 or so to "tweak" and existing horn, then $1500 retail for one made from scratch isn't bad at all. In your example, whether you start with a $75 horn, a $500 horn or a $1500 horn is a matter of choice. There are bells that I'd prefer to start with as compared to an Ambassador. Was there a Recording C? If so, personally I'd pick that, based on my comparative experience with Abassador and Recording Bbs. I much prefer the Recordings, pre-tweak, and I think a lot has to do with the bell. Still, what you're proposing is a viable option for many. I'd probably start with a $500-$1000 horn, but that's my personal preference. Dave __________________ Schilke '60 B1 Selmer Paris -- '57 #20 K-Modified/ '03 Concept TT w/ GR66.8B2.8 '94 Lawler TL cornet w/ Sparx 2B Conn Vintage One flugel - GR66FD www.pitpops.com www.ucm-inc.com Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

04-05-2005, 02:11 PM	#42 (permalink)
zuester New Friend Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 30	dc step, I fully understand, the point of your post , but I must say I find it a little presumptious of you to tell people what they should and should not post about. I don't want to offend you, but I am really very well qualified to comment on trumpets of any bore size, just as I am sure that you are equally prepared to do so . As I have said a million times , my problem is not whith the hors per se, just these overzealous ZeuS dealers. Later

04-05-2005, 02:18 PM	#43 (permalink)
zuester New Friend Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 30	There , gzent said it a solid pro horn for a good price, of course I am paraphrasing here but that is the jist of it . Now , is he bashing Zeus , sonds to me like he is saying the same thing I have been saying, A DECENT HORN AT A FAIR PRICE, that's it no more no less, NOW, is he bashing ZeuS. No, I think not just expressing his opinion !

04-05-2005, 02:37 PM	#45 (permalink)
zuester New Friend Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 30	DC STEP, you are correct sir, (in the words of Ed McMahon to Johnny Carson), I find it also interesting that the Large Bore Trumpets that they are making today , don't necessary play like that old large bores of the old days. I personally find that a 468 is just about big enough for me . I also think that med. large ( 462, 463 , 464, ) offer a good compromise for the player not happy with the standard 459 bore. I personally have a Bach LT 43 and a Holton ST307 (468), and a Yamaha 6310 Z ( step bore as we all know)

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