Kingdigimon

What to do with my old Couesnon Flugel??
Please read entire info before commenting...

I have a old Couesnon Flugel that is in excellent condition and free of any major dings or dents and plays and sounds very good. After playing a short time, spit collects in the horn and I have to remove the valves to empty it out. I imagine if I want to really use this horn, it will have to be modified.

Now for a few questions...

1) What modifications should be done to this horn to make it's use practical?

2) I want a very nice professional flugelhorn. Will the modifications to this horn bring this horn up to a professional level horn? My price range will be up to $2000.

3) The valves on this horn seem old and tired and don't move smoothly like my new horn I just purchased (yamaha xeno silver) -- can these be upgraded or improved?

Well I posted these same questions to the Trumpetherald.com and got quite a few responses. I do intend to take it in locally and have it cleaned and assessed, but if you have any advice besides what was provided my trumpetherald viewers -- Regarding repair referrals I would greatly appreciate it.

BTW -- I love the sound of this horn and do want to keep it!
============================

Responses from Trumpetherald...

If that were my horn I'd start with getting a precision valve alignment by Bob Reeves and consider having the valves restored (replated) by Charlie Melk or someone like that if they have low tolerance. The valve restoration might cost around 500 dollars but the alignment is only 150 dollars or so.



I faced the same issue a couple of years ago. I had a 1960s Couesnon in unrestored condition. Gorgeous dark gold lacquer, really sweet sound. But the valves were lousy and leaky, the scale was not great, and the lacquer was worn quite a bit especially on the bell. So I tried a few new flugels, hoping to find the same quality of sound without the drawbacks (intonation, sloppy valves, cosmetics).
What I found, though, was no modern horn that I tried really could compete with the sound I get on my Couesnon. So I talked to Dr. Valve, and he scheduled me for an overhaul. I had the valves rebuilt and aligned, and the horn itself overhauled and relacquered. He also added a hybrid 3rd valve trigger with a Yamaha paddle and nylong ball socket joints that's quiet and works perfectly. (He added an Amado key to the 3rd slide because it fits in there better with the trigger than a standard water key would.) He also suggested buffing only enough to get the horn to refinish well, and if the choice was between taking too much metal to get it smooth or leaving a few minor cosmetic flaws to preserve the sound, he'd always opt for the second approach.
When I got the horn back, I was delighted to find the scale was much improved by the valve overhaul and alignment, and the trigger made low C and C# much less work! I've tried a lot of flugels before and since, and I think mine is the finest I've ever played. It's a Couesnon that's better now than the day it left the factory. Even with the valve rebuild and alignment, addition of a trigger, overhaul and relacquer, I spent around $1200, which is well below your new horn budget.
If your Couesnon is one of the highly coveted models with 44 on the leadpipe receiver (indicating low pitch, or A=440) and a leadpipe receiver that sticks out well past the bell bow, keep it. Have the valves checked and redone if needed. Never sell it, and NEVER let anyone cut the leadpipe down as this ruins the horn.



I echo this advice. Dr. Valve is the guy. He's rebuilt several of my horns and has done a superb job on every one of them. Check him out at www.drvalve.com



These are some great suggestions.
BEFORE you do anything were I you I would first if you are able to try many different pro level flugelhorns and decide which type of flugelhorn that you like.
Like a fancy brand of car, a flugelhorn that is loved and admired by one person is loathed by another.
Try out as many pro flugelhorns as you can such as the Kanstul custom and signature, a Lawler, a Calicchio, a Taylor, a Stomvi, a Conn Vintage One, The Arturo Sandovol Holton, the Harrelson, the vintage Courtois, the Yamaha 631/731, the really cool looking Marcinkewitz ,Eclipse, Flip Oakes Wild Thing 460 bore or a used 460 bore Jerome Callet. First try to decide which brand of flugelhorn, bore size, shank, era, bell type, etc. works the best for you.
This is an excellent must read for anyone looking at buying a flugelhorn:
http://www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/Flugelhorn%20Guide.html
It may be that with your budget the only way that you can get the flugelhorn that you want would be to sell your current horn and then buy a good quality top of the line pro used flugelhorn. That is what I did in order to get my Kanstul 1525, and then when I had the money I just paid David Williams to refurbish and refinish it (I can't wait till he is done, it is being finished in a silver satin finish with gold trim).
At $2,200.00 the Lawler Flugelhorn new in silver with the gold brass bell is one of the best values in a new top of the line pro flugelhorn.
http://www.lawlertrumpets.com/fluegel.html
Another option with your budget would be to sell your flugelhorn and buy a good quality used large 6 1/2 " copper bell Calicchio.
The best value in top of the line used flugelhorns seems to be the 60's (Brevette) pro Courtois (Maynard's former choice) often on ebay at a steal for $700.00 + , or perhaps the often ignored Selmer Paris(often invisible but a great value at about a grand in silver, check wichita band co for these
http://www.wichitaband.com/used2.html
, I see they still have a H. Selmer , and a Courtois as well), but chances are you might not like these two any more than the Couesnon that you have.
Respectfully others might disagree with me, but I think that for you your best option is to sell the Couesnon if you can get a fair price for it and buy a new Lawler in silver with the gold brass bell. Expect about a 8 - 10 week wait for the Lawler.


I had the valves on my Olds L-12 rebuilt by Anderson. It cost me around $250 and they did a freaking awesome job.
__________________________________________________ __________________________

I would not get ahead of myself here. I would have your horn checked out by a trusted repair person. Maybe all it needs is a good cleaning and valve alignment. Maybe new valve springs? I mean, why have the valves replated unless it is necessary? A chem-clean and an alignment will probably improve the intonation, and adding a third valve trigger is not that big a deal. Personally, if I liked the sound of an instrument, I would try some basic maintainance first and see if that took care of the problems. If not, get a repair estimate and do some soul searching. Many players who could afford to buy a new flugel keep and use their Couesnons, because to them (and me), sound is the number one consideration. To them, their Couesnons ARE very nice professional flugelhorns! Just my thoughts....

__________________
David Allan