Andy Cooper

I had a Chicago Benge several years ago and noted that, while light weight, it was a VERY dark smooth playing trumpet. It did not remind me of the the general sound of most Benge models made in CA. Was this model probably a custom or "fluke" or were the Chicago models in general designed to have a dark core to their sound? As long as I am typing - how similar in sound is the Kanstul CHI 1070 (.470) to the Kanstul .470 F. Besson?

camelbrass

Hi,

I suspect that's how the Chicagos played (I don't know because alas I've never played one) because that pretty much describes my Kanstul. When you take it above the staff though it gets that commercial 'edge'...just the right amount of bite IMHO.

Or is it that it's just these 2 Chicagos?

Regards

Trevor

PS. Did you mean Kanstul's Meha?

Larry Gianni

Hi all,

That Benge was recently restored by Kanstul Music for the owner who lives by me in Southern California. He and I have bought and traded trumpets for years and this was offered to me before the E-bay offer, but I was in the process of buying 3 NY Bach cornets, one with a long bell, and passed. Now I’m sorry I did.

I know the owner personally and he had a hard time deciding to put it on the market, but was “jonesing “for a NY Bach, sn 17xx, so he decided to sell. He too is now regretting his decision.

Zig really does some great restoration jobs, but he really doesn't promote it because it takes his best personnel off building his line of trumpets. It’s harder to repair them then to make them from new, fresh parts, so he needs his best craftsmen for a vintage restoration.

I saw the trumpet when it came in and when it went out and the change was amazing. Plus, Zig having been Eldon Benge's VP/shop manager, he knows Benge's inside and out and still has older Benge parts in the factory.

Zig has one of the first 5 Chicago Benges in a case at the Shop.

LG

wardsd

Larry,

Any chance you know the serial number of that first-five Chicago Benge? I ask because I have seen conflicting information on what the first number was. this page from the trumpet gearhead http://www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/Bengedata.html lists the first trumpet as number 525, but I have spoken with Donald Benge who told me it is number 500. I haven't yet heard of a trumpet below 525.

I also own a very old Chicago Benge, #56x, with an interesting history. The guy I bought it from bought it used in 1949 with the help of Vincent Cichowicz, his trumpet teacher. Vincent Cichowicz played in the Chicago symphony with Schilke, who was helping Elden Benge build trumpets in his basement. The new owner brought it to Elden Benge who fixed it up and re-lacquered it. The owner also met Schilke, who gave him a mouthpiece to use in 1950. The interesting thing here is that Schilke didn't officially go into business until 1956. The mouthpiece is in the case with the trumpet. I have verified parts of this story with Donald Benge, who remembers the owner. I would really like to contact Vincent Cichowicz for further verification if anyone knows how to contact him.

And oh, buy the way, mine has a standard third slide setup, and I believe that is original. Elden did supposedly make them for a period reversed, but I have never seen serial number range where that happened. I also own a #3xxx Chicago, and it is standard configuration as well.

Steve

Larry Gianni

Hi Steve,

I happen to be going down to Kanstul an today and having lunch with Zig and a fellow named Byron Aubrey , who worked with Ren. Schilke for a number of years and now is helping Doc develop his own line. ( The NAMM show is in town ) I will ask Zig personally and get the answer to your question.

Zig, after Benge , went on to work as VP for King instruments then in 1985 started Kanstul Musical Instruments.

I'll print your post out and take it with me.


Larry

PS: I was actually hoping to meet Alex at the show also.

wardsd

Larry,

Were you able to get any information on that Benge?

Steve

Larry Gianni

Hi Steve,

Yes, I have , but just havn't had time to put it into a cohesive, understandable post. ( that's always my goal , anyway )

I plan to do it tonight ( PST )

I have info from Zig , Byron Aubrey and Bob Reeves.

Bob Reeves worked for Eldon Benge in the Burbank facility , before starting his world famous mouthpiece line. Bob worked at Burbank Benge with John Duda's father , Lou Duda. ( John is the new owner of Calicchio trumpets ).

Check out www.calicchio.com for pictures of Lou Duda and a great friend of mine, Joe Lintz, who I had the pleasure of working with at Calicchio.

I'm sorry for the delay in getting the info to you. I also have new of Vincent Cickowitz ( sp? ).

Larry

Larry Gianni

Steve,

Here is what was said to me when I asked Zig about the “magic # 500 starting point of Benge trumpets

As you probably know, Zig Kanstul worked for Eldon Benge both in Burbank and Anaheim facilities and continued his relationship with Benge after the acquisition of Benge by UMI. He left UMI / Benge in 1980,

In 1981, shortly before UMI moved the Benge production east, Kanstul was opening his own shop in southern California, close to the original Benge, Anaheim facility.
When UMI decided to move the Benge facility out of Anaheim to Elkhart under the UMI Corp. banner (Conn, King, Benge, Artley, Armstrong, etc)


Zig’s next factory was close to the original Benge/Anaheim plant and this is when he started to make horns for Boosy and Hawke’s and the beginnings of the “Burbank Trumpet “line based on the Burbank Benge made by Eldon Benge. It was at this point , that Donald Benge was involved with the “ Burbank Trumpet “ and the Kanstul facility I, in general, in the capacity of consultant and partner with Zig, but eventually Zig bought out Donald share and is now sole owner of the line. Mike Thomas Music distributes the “Burbank Trumpet “line.

He has heard this “ # 500 “ starting number before, but has seen and has owned Chicago Benges before that number and has one stamped “ # 35x “ . (He asked me not to give out the exact number). He said that he never remember Eldon or Donald Benge ever giving the #500 as a starting point to anyone and that Donald also says he never gave this kind of info publicly.

Well, that’s boils down a long conversation in a “nutshell “. Zig told me he does get calls about this issue from time to time and usual leaves it “up in the air “with the caller because he really doesn’t have time to, as he puts it, “talk someone into the truth “.

Bob Reeves actually has a data base of trumpets he has aligned ( It can be accessed by either name of client or brand/serial number ) and he also has a couple Chicago Benges below the # 500 registered as being aligned since he’s started aligning trumpets in the early 70’s and recording the info.

Larry

PS: I will PM privately on a way to contact Mr. Cichowitz

wardsd

Larry,

Thanks for the help! I was able to contact Vincent Cichowicz. I read to him the history and information I have on my Chicago Benge. He remembers the original owner, and remember the history as I read it, and said it all fits. Unfortunately he couldn't add to it. But, the discussion was interesting, and he sounded like like he enjoyed discussing it as well.

Things like this are the reason I enjoy collecting trumpets!

Thank again,
Steve

Larry Gianni

Steve,

Another guy that might be interesting guy to talk to is Byron Aubey
he's a retired prof. at the university of Michigan and worked with Schilke in the 60's. He developed the X3 for the Schilke team and the M II line

He's now on the team trying to develop the new " Servinson Line " with Kanstul and Franz Straub of Germany. He a very nice guy and loves to talk trumpet. If you like , send me an PM and I'll give you his phone number. Tell him your a friend of mine. He lives in Lansing, Michigan
I met him thru Doc

He knows alot about vintage Chicago Benges, he knew Eldon when he had the Chicago Factory. He has a couple vintage Chicago Benge's

Ciao

LG