screamingmorris

I used to have no trouble at all playing F above High C on a .460 bore Holton Super Collegiate cornet (if I used a Weril W47 mouthpiece).
Like I said at that time, the tone of my High F's on that Holton was exactly the beautiful tone I had always wanted from a trumpet but could never get from a trumpet.

Then when I got the .485 bore Conn 5A my range instantly dropped half an octave (although I loved the rich tone in the lower register).

But my range on the Conn 5A has been improving a lot with practice, scales and songs up to E above High C, although the notes sound very thin and strained and cracking above High C.

With the Conn 5A I had to learn to play more softly and develop my embouchure more, so that my embouchure could provide the resistance that the Holton cornet used to have but my Conn 5A doesn't have.
Same reason that many lead players say that they can play lead longer with an old Conn 22B.
The .438 bore of the old 22B provides just enough more resistance that it helps endurance in the upper register, with the 22B offering resistance when the tired embouchure cannot fully offer enough resistance.

Although I will practice to improve my tone on the Conn 5A on the notes up to High C, I will not try to develop a usable range above that, because I want to maintain a nice cornet tone, and the deeper Bach 7- no letter mouthpiece gives me that nicer tone.
I will try to find a decent trumpet and use that for screaming.
I'm sure my Conn 5A cornet will thank me for that.

BTW, I consider the Conn 5A to be one of the real bargains available today.
It is made very solidly, can purr like a kitten, has a beautiful rich tone, is a professional quality instrument, yet one sold on eBay recently for just $153.
Another one priced at $250 never sold at all.
I got mine for a BIN of $165 plus shipping.
I *LOVE* my Conn 5A more every day as I adjust to it more and more.
(Although my wandering eye still wonders what an expensive Conn 37A/38A Connstellation cornet would be like.)

- rife Morris

Dale Proctor

Both the cornet and flugel lose their characteristic sound when played way above the staff. The trumpet tone suffers somewhat, too, but is more suited to high playing than the cornet and flugel. My primary cornet (Bach 184) is more difficult to play up high than my trumpet (Bach 43) is, even when using the same size mouthpiece. Many of those who can and do play extremely high on Bb cornet don't have a tone that's very pleasant to listen to.

BTW, I have a Conn 5A .485 bore cornet, also, and it's easier to play high on than my Bach 184, but the endurance still suffers compared to trumpet.

__________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

Bloomin Untidy Musician

What cornet are you talking about? You have the long model, shepherd's hook model, and the soprano cornet. Within british brass bands the sop cornet regularly plays up to concert Eb (Bb-high F) with power. One of the greatest exponents of high note cornet playing is Peter Roberts the former soprano player for Black Dyke. He is awsome!! One of a kind. Here is a link to hear him in action.

YouTube - Where eagles sing - Paul Lovatt Cooper

There is recordings where he will bang out top Fs (Bb that is) till the cows come home without a split orpoor intonation. I do not think that there has ever been a sop. player to match his talent. The sop cornet is a bloomin difficult role to fill within a brass band; it is very exposed due to it's brighter, more penetrating sound. They can literally make or break a band (or a player)!
Why bother playing double C's on a Bbcornet? Come on it is has no musical function within the context of cornet literature, or style. I have heard friends of mine playing Double Cs on a shepherd's hook cornet and it sounds pants!! Cornets should not be "tarred with the same brush" or played the same as a trumpet. They are two very different beasts in my opinion, and very few can play both instruments stylishly.

Oh well there's my opinion for what it is worth!

screamingmorris

Is that anything like "the cat's pajamas"?
cat's pyjamas - Wiktionary

Yew ain't frum around hear, air ya?

- Morris in the middle of the United States

screamingmorris

*That* surpises me, since I think your Bach is approximately .462 and the Conn 5A is .484.

Does the Bach actually feel more open and require more air than the Conn?

It reminds me of the Conn Constellation trumpets that Conn Loyalist says are so wide open, have such little resistance, that she has trouble playing them, and they have a tiny .438 bore.

Also, I saw an old, old post where you said that you were looking to buy a Conn 76A.
Did you decide not to get one after you bought the Conn 5A, since they are so similar in type?
I'm curious to hear a critique from someone who has tried both.
And anyone who has tried the smaller-bore Conn 77A, too.

- Morris

rowuk

Cornets were actually played by "anti-screamers". Herbert Clarke and many others criticized the agressive style and attitude of "trumpet players". In real brass bands, the trumpet has a more lowly function than the cornets and you would get lynched for playing the Eb soprano part on a picc....................

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Dale Proctor

The Bach doesn't feel more open than the Conn 5A. The Bach 184 is actually less tiring to play than the Conn and has a richer sound, but is harder to play high on for some reason. The 5A seems to have less resistance in the upper register, which lets it speak easier up there, but is more tiring to play than my trumpet. Maybe it responds better to muscle than the Bach cornet does.

You're right - after I found a 5A, I quit looking for a 76A. The reasoning being, the 5A Victor is a pro level cornet, while the 76A Connquest is an intermediate level cornet. I've never played a 76A, so I don't know how they stack up against other models.

__________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

Bloomin Untidy Musician

Naw, i am fae the Emerald Isle, so it is.

nordlandstrompet

It's even worse.

Ask any British Bandsman about the rumours about Maurice Murphy? playing the Eb-cornet part on a Bb-cornet on a contest in the 50-ies......

Bloomin: Do you have the whole story?
I've only heard bits & parts of it.

__________________
nordlands

"All music is folkmusic. I ain't never heard no horse sing no song?" Louis Armstrong

Wife still says: Trumpets are expencive!

Bloomin Untidy Musician

Unfortunately i have not heard that tale about Maurice Murphy. Nothing would surprise me as far as he is concerned.