martin imperial trumpets - Page 2

Toobz · 10-09-2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcmurry

I picked up a Martin Imperial because I just thought it was a good deal. It is serial number 707389. I really didn't think it was going to be such a nice playing trumpet but find myself liking the way it plays.

I always wondered how old it was. It seems like such a high serial number.

Can anyone tell me what I might have?

Greg

It's possibly after LeBlanc bought out the Martin name. I'd check
LeBlanc serial number list's, it might give you some idea of it's age.

As for the reintroduction of the Imperial, I believe that was around 1950.
Non-handcraft Imperials were student/intermediate horns, but
were still decent players.

gmcmurry · 10-09-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toobz

It's possibly after LeBlanc bought out the Martin name. I'd check
LeBlanc serial number list's, it might give you some idea of it's age.

Easier said than done.... Do you have any idea where I can find a LeBlanc serial number list?

Greg

Toobz · 10-10-2007, 01:37 AM

Here's what I found.
Taken from : Martin Committee

There's another list from Rob Stewart in Arcadia, CA that's pretty close and adds about 19 years.

1919 17221

1920 19482

1921 19933-23781

1922 29942

1923 34838

1924 40644

1925 48489-54853

1926 62852-72051

1927 79204

1928 86687

1929 92536

1930 98324

1931 101622

1932 105096

1933 106546

1934 108301

1935 111253

1936 116551

1937 118038

1938 126998

1939 132070

1940 136040

1941 140199

1942 144455

1943 145322

1944 000000

1945 145352

1946 154289

1947 161520

1948 165326

1949 170395

1950 172215

1951 175140

1952 179317

1953 183125

1954 187614

1955 193747

1956 194213

1957 201809

1958 203917

1959 205377

1960 209089

1961 211675

1962 213999

1963 218855

1964 700000

As you can see, Martin jumped to 700000 in 1964. I'd guess with production based from 2 to 5 thousand per year, your Martin (707389)would probably be a mid to late 60's horn. According to the above mentioned website, your Martin most likely was made during the Wurlitzer owned phase, and not LeBlanc . The jump to 700000 may have been Wurlitzer's doing, based on the time line, but that's just a guess.

After a little more digging I have narrowed your timeline a little. Wurlitzer production ran from 1964 until 1968 when production ceased. So your horn is from the '64 to '68 period.
LeBlanc purchased Martin in 1971, so it probably was not a LeBlanc Martin.

oldlou · 10-10-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Rowe

Would be nice to interview the actual "marketing people" that were involved in the Martin "family tree" of instruments.

"Marketing people" in general, seldom know a great deal about the product or services they are hired to promote, whatever it might be.

Since most (or all) of these people are dead, it is a moot point to debate all this. Kinda like regurgitating your own vomit ... (sorry for the graphic analogy).

I have a couple vintage Martin brochures from the era in question. Along with the actual examples of some of these horns, one can speculate as to where each horn-model may have been placed ... and I suppose the retail pricing may be of some assistance.

The "best" ... the "finest" ... the "top-of-the-line" referencing is somewhat subjective.

We horn-players are extremely judgemental. Today's (2006 AD) standards are biased toward horns that excel in the jazz idiom of tonal spectrum.

Sometimes overlooked, is the concept that many horns of the "Golden Era" were designed (engineered?) toward orchestral, "big-band", and symphonic applications ... not as "jazz horns".

Think about it -- if you were at the top-level of the corporate end of the horn business, would you set your sights on selling horns to the rather small segment of the market called "jazz"? Many emerging jazz-artists were not well paid, and struggled to get by on whatever "decent" horn they could get their hands on. Give them much credit for perservering and getting a lot out of mediocre instruments.

Anyhow -- I think I'm getting off on a "tangent" (nice 50-cent word from those trigonometry-classes). I enjoy this friendly discourse with my fellow horn afficionados and colleagues here.

Interesting stuff ....

Robt

Robt. makes some very valid points per his statement that musical tastes have changed for most people, thus, the changes in horn manufacture. Robt. is a man that I totally trust per his business practices and his historical acumen. Where he and I differ are about the eating of meat and his musical taste. He prefers trumpets to sound dark, while I want them bright. This has occasioned a couple of trades between us. I don't consider him to be wrong and I do not acqueisce on my personal taste. I believe that the handcraft Imperial that he mentions used to be in my collection. I KNOW that his Committee cornet was here before there.

OLDLOU>>

Bonasa · 04-24-2008, 12:36 PM

Not trying to hijack this thread, but instead would like to tap the collective wisdom present in trying to learn more about a 1929 (SN 89,5XX) small-bore (No. 1) Martin Handcrafted "New Master" Bb trumpet I recently acquired.

It appears to have a solid silver bell. Has anyone ever seen or heard of this model? It appears to be of the same vintage as Handcrafted Dasants and Imperials and shares many of the same characteristics (i.e., the full pinky ring and the same bell engraving). Does the "New Master" appear in any of the advertising or marketing material that some of you have referenced? Any and all information would be most welcome. Many thanks in advance.

Robert Rowe · 04-24-2008, 01:35 PM

Martin had a couple models during the mid-1920s, and up through (I believe ...?) the mid-1930s ... those being the one you have, and another, designated "New Symphony". I believe the "New Master" different from the "New Symphony" in the material used in the bell-section; namely, silver.

(BTW -- Please check the bell for an engraved hallmark, designating the presence of "Sterling Silver", rather than silver-plating).

I had an opportunity (missed, sadly) to acquire a fine "New Symphony" with exquisite engraving. I have been curious if Martin constructed these models with conical (step-bored) tubing sections. The Dansant does not ... it uses cylindrical tubing (but, shared valve-section) ... hence, a rather "life-less" tonal quality. The conical sectioned horns (including the "Imperial") tend to produce a richer tonal palette, with even-tempered overtones.

BTW #2 -- I have tried to contact the author / website manager at dallasmusic.org/index ... to correct several glaring errors in the "information" (??) provided, regarding Martin horns. No response. Be careful ... as the saying goes: "don't believe all that you read".

~ Namaste ....
Yogi Robt

gmcmurry · 04-24-2008, 02:13 PM

I picked up a "New Master" a while ago. I suspect it is silver plated.

Click Below for Pictures

Greg's Martin Handcraft "The New Master" SR# 96420

Brass crusader · 04-24-2008, 03:47 PM

Thanks guys,
I've started a thread devoted to The New Master, I'd love any more info.
The bell on mine is very heavy, and I see no sign of silver plating(i.e. brass showing through) inside the bell all the way through the crook. Therefore, I'd be guessing that it's solid silver.
Thanks

Toobz · 04-24-2008, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcmurry

I picked up a "New Master" a while ago. I suspect it is silver plated.

Click Below for Pictures

Greg's Martin Handcraft "The New Master" SR# 96420

That's one mighty nice Martin !
Did you find the horn in that shape, or did you restore it yourself ?

flugelgirl · 04-25-2008, 07:33 PM

Along this same line....I have a 1927 Martin Imperial that was given to me sans main tuning slide. I'd like to restore it, but need to locate the part. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

10-10-2007, 01:37 AM	#13 (permalink)
Toobz Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Prescott Valley , AZ Posts: 533	Re: martin imperial trumpets Here's what I found. Taken from : Martin Committee There's another list from Rob Stewart in Arcadia, CA that's pretty close and adds about 19 years. 1919 17221 1920 19482 1921 19933-23781 1922 29942 1923 34838 1924 40644 1925 48489-54853 1926 62852-72051 1927 79204 1928 86687 1929 92536 1930 98324 1931 101622 1932 105096 1933 106546 1934 108301 1935 111253 1936 116551 1937 118038 1938 126998 1939 132070 1940 136040 1941 140199 1942 144455 1943 145322 1944 000000 1945 145352 1946 154289 1947 161520 1948 165326 1949 170395 1950 172215 1951 175140 1952 179317 1953 183125 1954 187614 1955 193747 1956 194213 1957 201809 1958 203917 1959 205377 1960 209089 1961 211675 1962 213999 1963 218855 1964 700000 As you can see, Martin jumped to 700000 in 1964. I'd guess with production based from 2 to 5 thousand per year, your Martin (707389)would probably be a mid to late 60's horn. According to the above mentioned website, your Martin most likely was made during the Wurlitzer owned phase, and not LeBlanc . The jump to 700000 may have been Wurlitzer's doing, based on the time line, but that's just a guess. After a little more digging I have narrowed your timeline a little. Wurlitzer production ran from 1964 until 1968 when production ceased. So your horn is from the '64 to '68 period. LeBlanc purchased Martin in 1971, so it probably was not a LeBlanc Martin. Last edited by Toobz : 10-10-2007 at 12:17 PM.
	__________________ Conn 10B New Era trumpet Martin Committee cornet And lots of other old and smelly stuff !

04-24-2008, 12:36 PM	#15 (permalink)
Bonasa New Friend Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Western New York Brand: F. E. Olds & Son Posts: 10	Re: martin imperial trumpets Not trying to hijack this thread, but instead would like to tap the collective wisdom present in trying to learn more about a 1929 (SN 89,5XX) small-bore (No. 1) Martin Handcrafted "New Master" Bb trumpet I recently acquired. It appears to have a solid silver bell. Has anyone ever seen or heard of this model? It appears to be of the same vintage as Handcrafted Dasants and Imperials and shares many of the same characteristics (i.e., the full pinky ring and the same bell engraving). Does the "New Master" appear in any of the advertising or marketing material that some of you have referenced? Any and all information would be most welcome. Many thanks in advance.

04-24-2008, 01:35 PM	#16 (permalink)
Robert Rowe Piano User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 497	Re: martin imperial trumpets Martin had a couple models during the mid-1920s, and up through (I believe ...?) the mid-1930s ... those being the one you have, and another, designated "New Symphony". I believe the "New Master" different from the "New Symphony" in the material used in the bell-section; namely, silver. (BTW -- Please check the bell for an engraved hallmark, designating the presence of "Sterling Silver", rather than silver-plating). I had an opportunity (missed, sadly) to acquire a fine "New Symphony" with exquisite engraving. I have been curious if Martin constructed these models with conical (step-bored) tubing sections. The Dansant does not ... it uses cylindrical tubing (but, shared valve-section) ... hence, a rather "life-less" tonal quality. The conical sectioned horns (including the "Imperial") tend to produce a richer tonal palette, with even-tempered overtones. BTW #2 -- I have tried to contact the author / website manager at dallasmusic.org/index ... to correct several glaring errors in the "information" (??) provided, regarding Martin horns. No response. Be careful ... as the saying goes: "don't believe all that you read". ~ Namaste .... Yogi Robt
	__________________ " ... Ya cain't polish a turd ...!" (old Southern expression) ~~ Love animals ... don't eat them. ~~

04-24-2008, 02:13 PM	#17 (permalink)
gmcmurry New Friend Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 39	Re: martin imperial trumpets I picked up a "New Master" a while ago. I suspect it is silver plated. Click Below for Pictures Greg's Martin Handcraft "The New Master" SR# 96420
gmcmurry New Friend Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 39	__________________ "My Other Car Is A Trumpet" 1966 Olds Recording http://www.gregssandbox.com

04-24-2008, 03:47 PM	#18 (permalink)
Brass crusader Pianissimo User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Near Buffalo Brand: F.E Olds and Son, Yamaha Posts: 93	Re: martin imperial trumpets Thanks guys, I've started a thread devoted to The New Master, I'd love any more info. The bell on mine is very heavy, and I see no sign of silver plating(i.e. brass showing through) inside the bell all the way through the crook. Therefore, I'd be guessing that it's solid silver. Thanks
	__________________ ~Brass Crusader Yamaha Xeno Custom w/ reverse leadpipe 1947 Olds Super Recording trumpet 1947 Olds Special trumpet 1952 Olds Ambassador cornet 1967 Olds Special cornet 1970's Yamaha 631 Flugel w/ Rose brass bell 1970's Conn 17b Coprion director Other assorted Conns and Olds Yamaha and Bach Mouthpieces 1929 Martin Handcraft "The New Master" 1935 Conn 22B NY Symphony Special tpt

04-25-2008, 07:33 PM	#20 (permalink)
flugelgirl Pianissimo User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norfolk, VA Brand: depends on the day... Posts: 223	Re: martin imperial trumpets Along this same line....I have a 1927 Martin Imperial that was given to me sans main tuning slide. I'd like to restore it, but need to locate the part. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
	__________________ Reeves V Raptor Yamaha 8335RGM 50's Calicchio Marcienkewicz Rembrandt flugel Schilke P5-4 French Besson Classic C Weril Regium Eb/D

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